Sword from Angola. Chokwe, Salampasu?

[Pertinax]

Won the auction, the seller claims that the sword was brought from Angola in the 70s of the 20th century.

Characteristic round copper plates are found on Chokwe and Salampasu swords and knives.

I will be grateful for any help in identification. What versions will there be?

[Pertinax]

Total length 58.3 cm

[gp]

could indeed be Chokwe...
although the top of the below Chokwe handles are not round, blunt but both below have a tube-like ending

[werecow]

As an alternative hypothesis, my first thought was Baule, based on grips on the sword in this thread,



and the dagger shown below with the following description:

Very Rare Dagger of the Baule Tribe, Ivory Coast - 13207



The swords and daggers of the Baule tribe are quite rare and sought after by collectors of African weapon / tribal arts. The Baule people reside in Ivory Coast and Neighboring Ghana and known to be masters of wood work and wood engraving. We offer here for sale a classical dagger / short sword of the Baule. The blade is leaf shaped, 10 inches long 3 inches wide a bit crudely forged. The handle is carved hardwood set with brass tacks. The scabbard is wood, covered with hide and set with red painted shells, which were added only to weapons of highly prestigious owners. Total length 14 inches. Very good condition. One of the shells is partially loose. The seam of the hide on the back is open due to hide shrink. Small wood chips on the handle. A very rare authentic piece.

But I am very far from an expert and maybe the Chokwe grip gp posted is a better match.

EDIT: Or maybe Lunda?




But that sword is also described as possibly Chokwe:

Old And Exceptional Sword From The Lunda Tribe / Tshokwe / Chokwe / Songye Dr Congo Ca 1900"
Old And Rare Sword From The Tshokwe / Lunda / Songye Tribe - Dr Congo
Period: 1900 / before 1940
Length: 70 cm

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by gp

could indeed be Chokwe...
although the top of the below Chokwe handles are not round, blunt but both below have a tube-like ending

Hi gp!

Thank you, very similar swords, there are differences in the handles, but the blades seem to be from the same workshop.

Best regards,
Yuri.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by werecow

As an alternative hypothesis, my first thought was Baule, based on grips on the sword in this thread,



and the dagger shown below with the following description:



But I am very far from an expert and maybe the Chokwe grip gp posted is a better match.

EDIT: Or maybe Lunda?

Attachment 243330
Attachment 243331

But that sword is also described as possibly Chokwe:

Hi werecow!

Thanks for another direction in my search. I've already gone through the available information, swords of this type are quite rare, so it's quite difficult to say anything with certainty.:смущенный:

Let's keep looking!

Best regards,
Yuri.

[Tim Simmons]

To muddy the waters a little more. This Kwango sword has many of the discussed features though the blade is more decorated and the Kwango area is the opposite side of Africa to Angola.

[Marc M.]

Yaka, Suku, Tshokwe, Lunda and Kaniok are possibilities. The end of the handle seems to be missing a piece.
regards
Marc

[werecow]

And of course there's also the Yaka knife:

EDIT: Ah, Marc beat me to it.

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by werecow

And of course there's also the Yaka knife:

EDIT: Ah, Marc beat me to it.

A shared opinion is always cool.

[Tim Simmons]

Interesting. Museum fur Volkerkunde Africa-sammlung3 Waffen aus Zentral- Afrika.

[Tim Simmons]

With a little research you can find that the Lunda Empire stretched from Angola, Zambia and the Kwango river people in the DRC today. So all suggestions illustrate the extent of cultural influence. What a good place this is.

[gp]

it is a little more than the Lunda empire....

Although I am not native French speaking, the French text expands into more peoples:

"the populations of the cultural connected Lunda-Chokwe and in particular the populations of the Lunda, Chokwe, Yaka, Kaniok, Suku, Songye-Eki living on the border of north Angola, Zambia and the south of the DR Congo between the wooded savannah and pre-forest region use a very beautiful sword,
This weapon has a wooden mount whicth a metal pommel (brass, copper) is conical shaped and rests on an ellipsoid piece streaked with radiating lines"

So it seems many forum members were correct !

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Marc M.

Yaka, Suku, Tshokwe, Lunda and Kaniok are possibilities. The end of the handle seems to be missing a piece.
regards
Marc

I also assume that part of the handle could have been broken off. When I receive it, I will figure it out.

Best regards,
Yuri.

[werecow]

I think you may be right. The pommel "stalk" on my own yaka knife is kind of loose. I can't quite make out how it's connected but what seems to be leather around wood is very worn in that part and a bit torn, and there is significant movement between the stalk and the rest of the grip.

[Ian]

I have one that is very close to Tim's museum example. It appears to have some age. The leather is very thin and covers a light wooden sheath. The leather work was well done but has split in places with age.

The blade has a longitudinal groove down the middle on each side, flanked by multiple small linear marks. The metal (bronze?) hilt is constructed similar to other examples shown here. In hand, I estimate the age of this sword at about 100 years, so early 20th C or possibly late 19th C.

The weather was not very cooperative today for photographing today. If anyone needs better quality pics, please let me know.

This one came from a Swiss auction house in Basel. It was listed as a Yaka Ceremonial Sword and said to be called "mbeeli ya phoko."

Item Details

Description

Kurz-Schwert mit Scheide, "mbeeli ya phoko"
Yaka, Suku, DR Kongo
Ohne Sockel / without base
Eisen, Wood, Leder, Bronze. H 66 cm.

Provenienz:
Schweizer Privatsammlung, Genf.

Zeremonialwaffen zeichnen sich durch sorgfältige Herstellung und dekorative Gestaltung, z.B. der Verzierung mit wertvollen Materialien wie Kupfer, Bronze, Elfenbein oder Fell, aus.

Die ursprünglich Funktion ist damit eingeschränkt, so dass eine Verwendung als Kampfwaffe nicht mehr im Vordergrund steht. Vielmehr signalisieren sie den sozialen Status und die Macht des Trägers und sind damit eher Kult-, Prunk-, Würde- und Statuswaffen die auch im Tauschhandel Verwendung fanden.

Weiterführende Literatur:
Cornet, Joseph-Aurelien / Dewey, William Dr. / Dubrunfaut, P. / Elsen, Jan / Felix, Marc L. / Gosseau, Christian / Schoonheyt, Jacques / van Noten, Francis (1992). Beauté fatale. Armes d'Afrique centrale. Galerie du Crédit Communal. Crédit Communal, Bruxelles.

.

[werecow]

Mine is similar as well (seller's pics since it's too dark here to take pictures atm).

[gp]

here are 2 nice Yakas from my collection, although the one on the right has found a new owner ( happy to transfer it to a fellow forum member where it fits better in his collection)

[Pertinax]

Yaka with swords

[Pertinax]

Got the sword.

Well, what can I say – a real African gladius.

In general, the sword pleasantly surprised me with its quality of manufacture. If you don’t take into account swords with European blades, then, perhaps, such quality of forging is rare for Africa, except for Berber fleece.

A fully functional item, definitely not a souvenir.

Overall length – 580 mm, blade length – 455 mm, blade thickness – 6-7 mm, weight – 508 g

The wooden handle is covered with leather. Upon careful inspection, I came to the conclusion that the pommel could have been in the shape of a cone, but was broken off during use.

In the thread about Baule http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8143, participants expressed the opinion that the handle has nails for upholstery from the 19th century, clearly of European manufacture. Looking at swords with similar decor on the handle, I thought that the items were made +/- at the same time and in the same region, by different tribes. Such nails are not found on later items.

As a version - at the end of the 19th - beginning of the 20th century, traders brought a batch of nails for upholstery to this region, and local blacksmiths began to use them in decorating swords.

What are the opinions?

[Ian]

Nice sword Pertinax, and the patina on the hilt and blade do suggest some age. The presence of these upholstery nails does seem to indicate a late 19th/early 20th C foreign influence. Perhaps it was simpler (and cheaper) to use brass nails to embellish the hilts rather than some of the traditional cast brass/bronze elements. There appears to be residue from an old polishing compound between and around the nails, again an influence from outside the culture.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Ian

Nice sword Pertinax, and the patina on the hilt and blade do suggest some age. The presence of these upholstery nails does seem to indicate a late 19th/early 20th C foreign influence. Perhaps it was simpler (and cheaper) to use brass nails to embellish the hilts rather than some of the traditional cast brass/bronze elements. There appears to be residue from an old polishing compound between and around the nails, again an influence from outside the culture.

This is not an old polishing compound, this is leather. The handle is wooden, covered with leather.

[Ian]

I was referring to the white material that surrounds many of the nail heads. I realize that the base is leather, but the white material is not leather. Another possibility is mildew resulting from some moisture on the hilt.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Ian

I was referring to the white material that surrounds many of the nail heads. I realize that the base is leather, but the white material is not leather. Another possibility is mildew resulting from some moisture on the hilt.

This is mold on old leather.

Do you think, Ian, that we can determine the age of swords like this by the upholstery tacks?