Information wanted

[Pendita65]

Hi,

i post some pictures from a Keris Hulu that i bought through the internet, It is not yet arrived at my place but i would like to share some images the seller provided. I am not sure if it is bone ivory or antler, but the shape of the hulu is something i haven't seen before. So i hope someone can shine some light on it and enbroaden my knowledge, Thanks for now.

Regards, Martin

[David]

Hi Martin. I would say it is most probably bone, though i wouldn't could out antler without examining it first hand. Definitely not ivory though.
Regarding the style, for me this is a one-off folk art piece so you are not likely to put a name to this form. I'd say it is contemporary. Not new, but probably no earlier than the latter part of the 20th century.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by Pendita65

Hi,

i post some pictures from a Keris Hulu that i bought through the internet, It is not yet arrived at my place but i would like to share some images the seller provided. I am not sure if it is bone ivory or antler, but the shape of the hulu is something i haven't seen before. So i hope someone can shine some light on it and enbroaden my knowledge, Thanks for now.

Regards, Martin

Does it has pores? It will be good if you can capture some clear photo of the inside of the hulu.

[Sajen]

Hi Martin,

I guess that your handle is made from bone. It don't follow any known pattern but I think it's from Madura/East Java.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Pendita65]

thnx Detlef, David and Anthony,

and i will see how it really is when it has arrived.


Best wishes, Matin

[Pendita65]

Hi All,

two days ago the keris arrived with the unknown style hulu/ukiran Detlef thought it might come from Madura and probably bone. When i got the Keris in my hands and took it out of the sheath the Keris itself was in a rusty shape and the hulu was stuck on, impossible to move or turn, so i heated with a fohn the blade and with utmost care i was able to turn it of without damage. I then soaked the hulu in warm water and used hard toothbrush to clean it, and some of my dental tools to give it a good clean. I reglued some cracks with superglue and let it dry overnight. I used my electric toothbrush and toothpaste and gave it a good clean. And to my surprise under my magnifier i could see schreger lines so it is ivory and not bone. This makes me happy as I find the carving nicely done of the hulu.

Will post some pictures tomorrow and will see if i can take a good photo where i can show the schreger lines.

I also attach an nice article about the identifying of ivories and other natural materials.

Have a nice evening and regards,

Martin

[Rick]

To me this form looks like an interpretation of the Kocet Kocetan keris handle style.
I know it's a stretch, still that's what popped into my head upon first view.

[Pendita65]

Hi Rick,

that thought also occured on my mind.

And i hope Mr. Maisey would share his thoughts about it.

Regards, Martin

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

To me this form looks like an interpretation of the Kocet Kocetan keris handle style.
I know it's a stretch, still that's what popped into my head upon first view.

I can see that as a possibility as well. Perhaps not so much of a stretch.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pendita65

Hi All,

two days ago the keris arrived with the unknown style hulu/ukiran Detlef thought it might come from Madura and probably bone. When i got the Keris in my hands and took it out of the sheath the Keris itself was in a rusty shape and the hulu was stuck on, impossible to move or turn, so i heated with a fohn the blade and with utmost care i was able to turn it of without damage. I then soaked the hulu in warm water and used hard toothbrush to clean it, and some of my dental tools to give it a good clean. I reglued some cracks with superglue and let it dry overnight. I used my electric toothbrush and toothpaste and gave it a good clean. And to my surprise under my magnifier i could see schreger lines so it is ivory and not bone. This makes me happy as I find the carving nicely done of the hulu.

Will post some pictures tomorrow and will see if i can take a good photo where i can show the schreger lines.

I also attach an nice article about the identifying of ivories and other natural materials.

Have a nice evening and regards,

Martin

If it turns out to be ivory that's great. Looking forward to seeing your photos.

[Pendita65]

The pictures I took them with my iPhone and an embroidery magnifier with light. So I could not get better images of the Schrager lines
But hope you are able to see them.

Regards, Martin

[Sajen]

Hi Martin,

Yes, I am able to see them. Looks much better on your pictures than from the seller. Congrats, a nice handle and I agree with David and Rick, could be a form of the kocet kocetan form.

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Cleaned up nicely and i agree that i can see the lines as well.
This is an interesting find because i am fairly certain this is not Balinese (most likely Madurese) and if this is intended as a kocet-kocetan form (and elements of the hilt do point that way) it would be the first time i have seen that form from outside of Bali. I do at least see elements that seem to be insect like in nature. Can you take a photo that looks directly head on at what appears to be the front/belly of the hilt?

[Pendita65]

Hi Detlef and David,

See the pictures of the front and I do belief it’s a Kocet Kocetan

Regards, Martin

[Sajen]

We shouldn't try to classify the handle in question to a specific name i. E. k. kocetan, like David already stated is my personal guess to have a East Javanese handle here which resembles a k. kocetan handle or an insect like figure or their grub carved in ivory and shows a nice patination and also appeals to the eyes, at least to my ones! Only the carver will know which figure it should represent.

Regards,
Detlef

[Rick]

Of course, Detlef.
There's nothing wrong with members expressing their thoughts though. I don't think any one of us has said that this anything definite, just observations, no harm in that.

[Pendita65]

Yes,

it's a ukiran with insect features nicely carved in ivory the face adorned with curly antennae. And maybe someone in the future can tell, we have seen a similar one in Indonesia.

Regards, Martin

[David]

Originally Posted by Pendita65

Yes,

it's a ukiran with insect features nicely carved in ivory the face adorned with curly antennae. And maybe someone in the future can tell, we have seen a similar one in Indonesia.

Regards, Martin

I think that feature you are calling antennae look more like probiscus in that postion, but who knows. AFAIK the Balinese kocet-kocetan is the only example of a keris hilt that depicts the insect kingdom. Perhaps someone else knows of another example. We could do a lot of speculating here. Certainly there are Balinese communities in Madura and maybe this could have been made by an ethnic Balinese living in East Jawa an this was their interpretation of a kocetan hilt. Though it is missing certain features such as the multiple legs that we usually see on kocetan. But it is impossible to get inside the head of an unknown carver.
Regardless i believe it is an excellent and unique find.

[Pendita65]

Thank you David, and all the others that tried to shine a light on it, and yes i am happy with this little piece of qualtity carving art.

I will have it displayed soon i get my new house atelier

To be followed and regards,

Martin