SPANDAU BALLET

[Jim McDougall]

Stu, truly well noted and perfectly said. We have all together pretty much poured heart and souls into these forums in working to build knowledge together. While like any family we have had our ups and downs, the huge core of knowledge collected on these pages and archived will hopefully remain a resource found by those who will follow us, and help them as the continue the work we have all shared.

Thank you CC for the nudge back to topic, and very well made point, the Spandau for use in these planes had to have been air cooled as the weight of water would have been too much. It does not seem they carried an excessive weight of ammunition either. As I mentioned, there was a 'counter' which kept count of the number of rounds spent.
There do not seem to have been the 'guns blazing' scenes naturally employed often in depictions of air battles, and it was more the minimal rat-tat-tat, short bursts more accurately portrayed.
That being the case, the overheating of barrels would not have been a likely problem as you note.

Most of the Spandau's I have seen offered in sales seem to be more the ground use versions, most of which do not have the familiar heat shields covering the barrel. Having noted that, it seems curious that these 'aviation' guns as used would not have needed such a feature as the barrels were not likely to overheat.
Perhaps these heat shield surrounds on these guns for use on these planes were indeed to perhaps capture the air passing over the gun as useful in air cooling the barrel?

Looking into cooling of the allied guns.

[Jim McDougall]

Just looked further on the cooling dilemma so wanted to add as we look more into this:
Apparently the LEWIS guns were indeed air cooled and actually DID have a heat shroud.
What I found says these had a finned cast aluminum 'heat sink' around the barrel covered by a tubular heat shroud.This was open at both ends to allow air to be drawn in and pass through and over the cooling fins to dissipate radiated heat.

There seems to have been a misconception that the shroud held water, since disproven according to the online source.

These Lewis guns were produced in Belgium but later also by the Savage Arms Co. in New York, previously mentioned with the Indian chief with headdress logo they used and adopted by the famed Lafayette Escadrille.

As a side note on these early machine guns, not related to these larger aviation guns, on the Thompson sub machine gun.
Years ago in the early days of my career in airline passenger service, pre-security, guns were often carried aboard flights, and until the first hijackings there seemed little concern.
I can recall one instance where a guy was transporting with him, one of these THOMPSON'S!!! but without the drum ubiquitous in the familiar 'mobster' scenes. While it seemed unusual, but notable at the time, looking back at that instance now, it seems incredibly bizarre!
To indulge this digression slightly further, one old gentleman who had been an FBI agent in the 30s, had amazing tales and told me that in the 'city' they only used service revolvers, and only used the 'tommies' in more rural situations. I wished I had more time to talk with him but as always in airports, time dominates.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Just looked further on the cooling dilemma so wanted to add as we look more into this:
Apparently the LEWIS guns were indeed air cooled and actually DID have a heat shroud.
What I found says these had a finned cast aluminum 'heat sink' around the barrel covered by a tubular heat shroud.This was open at both ends to allow air to be drawn in and pass through and over the cooling fins to dissipate radiated heat.

There seems to have been a misconception that the shroud held water, since disproven according to the online source.

These Lewis guns were produced in Belgium but later also by the Savage Arms Co. in New York, previously mentioned with the Indian chief with headdress logo they used and adopted by the famed Lafayette Escadrille.

As a side note on these early machine guns, not related to these larger aviation guns, on the Thompson sub machine gun.
Years ago in the early days of my career in airline passenger service, pre-security, guns were often carried aboard flights, and until the first hijackings there seemed little concern.
I can recall one instance where a guy was transporting with him, one of these THOMPSON'S!!! but without the drum ubiquitous in the familiar 'mobster' scenes. While it seemed unusual, but notable at the time, looking back at that instance now, it seems incredibly bizarre!
To indulge this digression slightly further, one old gentleman who had been an FBI agent in the 30s, had amazing tales and told me that in the 'city' they only used service revolvers, and only used the 'tommies' in more rural situations. I wished I had more time to talk with him but as always in airports, time dominates.

NICE A friend of mine has one of these in full operational order. The Lewis was used extensivly in WW2 also and was often twin mounted and used this way by (notibly) the Long Range Desert Group mounted on their Jeeps and trucks.
Stu