Arms collecting and nostalgia

[Jim McDougall]

In collecting arms and armor, while all of us have many different reasons for what we collect, whether by field, category or other variation, there are often cases where we are drawn to an item simply from a fond memory or interest in our lives.

As a young lad in about 1955, like most boys my age, the 'new' phenomenon of television brought the venerable westerns and movies into the home, and the long remembered TV series such as 'Gunsmoke', 'Rawhide' and others created a genre and images that remain in our memories.

In these productions of course, the gun was of course the most prevalent trope present, and the ubiquitous 'six gun' was seemingly used by EVERY man.
While these Colt 'peacemakers' became the standard, there were certain exceptions that took things into another dimension. Examples such as the 'mares leg' cut down Winchester used by McQueen in "Wanted Dead or Alive"; the Winchester with loop ring lever action used by Chuck Conners in "The Rifleman" and the legendary "Buntline Special" allegedly used by Wyatt Earp in various productions.

For me however, always drawn to the odd or unusual, I was intrigued by the flap holstered Army pistols seen worn by the army soldiers in the west, with the case in mind of the series "Rin Tin Tin" (1954-59). These were so unusual as they did not look like the Colts of course, so had a unique charisma, and I found they were REMINGTONS.

In the offers made in cereal box sales gimmicks, in one case there were tiny pewter miniatures of the guns of the wild west. I cut out the coupon from the cereal box (to my dads dismay as the cereal poured out the back of the cut out) mailed my quarter and got one of these sets.

There in these tiny guns was the REMINGTON! It was my very favorite!
Several years ago, one of my brothers presented me with some of these tiny pewter guns apparently found among family stuff stored long ago.

This tiny piece of my childhood compelled me to find a REAL example of one of these Remington pistols. It was a tall order, these apparently somewhat scarce, and commanded prices far out of my budget. But one day, I found one which was not in the condition demanded by most collectors, but it served my purpose....not only historically, but nostagically.

The images are of the Remington, the tiny pewter gun of 70 years ago, and the reference book written on these, a limited run and apparently singular one on this topic.
Please note of course, 'Hollywood historicity' is not always 'reliable', but its fun to look at the 'uniforms'.


What I'd like to see is similar stories by others who might have been compelled by such weapons seen in movies, literature or other events in their past which inspired the desire to find such a weapon to have in possession.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
I suspect more than a few of us have embarked on the arms collecting trail from childhood books, films and t.v. Mine started with t.v. in the fifties, The Adventures of Robin Hood with Richard Greene as Robin. I used to run home from school in great anticipation of 30 minutes of Robin's latest adventures. Unfortunately I have never found 12thC arms at a price compatible with my ambitions but there is still time, I hope !!!! There was also other 5 p.m. kids slots with William Tell, Lancelot, The Buccaneers etc., etc., all grist to the mill of childhood imagination. I did buy all the dvd issues of these t.v. shows and still delve into them occasionally. Nothing like a bit of nostalgia eh !!!!!
Regards as Always,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
Came across this photograph of American troops during the U.S. Expedition to Korea. Looks like they have rolling block carbines.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

This is great Norman! I know we are in good company with other guys whose boyhood imaginations fueled by the wonder of TV and old movies and TV series probably sparked interests in the exploits and weapons of these cinema heroes.
As you say, some of the period weapons, especially from those medieval times etc. have always been pretty much out of reach.

However, as I graduated from WWII bayonets often sold for a quarter out of barrels in surplus stores in the 50s, to an old Moro keris I was given off a garage wall for helping sand down model A frame......I later found many swords were to be had for just a few dollars.

With an obsession with Zorro (Disney 50s series) I found an old Spanish sword (with the Spanish motto- I had no idea what it meant) on the blade. It was in a boutique shop window festooned with costume necklaces. I was horrified at this disgraceful use of such a sword.........I went in, and bought it for about 20 bucks. The lifetime obession with Spanish colonial swords began. I am presently working on a project on these, with about 40 years of research at hand.

Good catch on the guns in this Korea? picture! When was this? I dont know much on us in Korea before the 50s.

Yup, the old classics (like us fun to watch time to time, and especially as we hold the period items. I recall some years ago before cable etc. and we waited for certain movies to come on in the programming. I excitedly told my wife "Gunga Din" was on tonight and we MUST watch it.
She said, OK , but no wearing that pith helmet again! You scare the cats!

Thanks for coming in and sharing !!!

Best
Jim

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
Some more 1950's childrens t.v. series on British screens that gave me the arms and armour bug. Interestingly in the series William Tell I noticed that some of the 'Swiss' daggers used are actually Axis dress daggers some of which were of course designed on real historical types. In the fifties of course loads of bringbacks from WW2 so no surprise some ended up in wardrobe departments. Some of the actors went on to do bigger things notably Roger Moore and Robert Shaw.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Good catch on the guns in this Korea? picture! When was this? I dont know much on us in Korea before the 50s.
Best
Jim

Hi Jim,
1871, here's a short history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

My Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Jim,
Some more 1950's childrens t.v. series on British screens that gave me the arms and armour bug. Interestingly in the series William Tell I noticed that some of the 'Swiss' daggers used are actually Axis dress daggers some of which were of course designed on real historical types. In the fifties of course loads of bringbacks from WW2 so no surprise some ended up in wardrobe departments. Some of the actors went on to do bigger things notably Roger Moore and Robert Shaw.
My Regards,
Norman.

Excellent examples Norman!!! It is true many weapons brought back from WWII ended up in wardrobe departments of movie studios. In the 'MISC' forum is the thread on the numbers of actual antique arms used in films.
Those Swiss 'Holbein' daggers (for Hans Holbein who fashioned macabre decoration on the scabbard in 1521) were well known as prestigious dress daggers there until early 17th c. How they ended up as 'German axis' regalia is hard to explain, but it certainly tarnished their character IMO.

The William Tell legend was really popular back in the 50s but the topic seems to have waned later. I doubt if any young people these days would have any idea who William Tell was. However the other films with buccaneers remain known, but collectively as 'pirate' films.

[Ed]

Lathe swords and garbage can cover shields

I have nothing else to add.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Jim,
1871, here's a short history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

My Regards,
Norman.

This is fascinating !!! I had not known of these events, and its amazing how much foreign intrigue went on in these times that was apparently overshadowed by larger scope conflicts in China (Peking 1900, Boxer Rebellion) and the Russo-Japanese war 1904-05.

Speaking of Korea, as a young lad, though only 5-6 years old, I was always fascinated by words so was reading in degree the news on the Korean War (1950-53). As my dad was pilot, we were around guys who flew F-86s etc.and we saw "Bridges at Toko-Ri" with William Holden. While obviously a bit out of the realm of arms collecting, the influence factor is much the same. Our 'collecting' in this aspect became model airplanes of course.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ed

Lathe swords and garbage can cover shields

I have nothing else to add.

Ed, you can say more in several words than I can in pages!
Of course, those items were ubiquitous in virtually most boys backyard epic battles!

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ed, you can say more in several words than I can in pages!
Of course, those items were ubiquitous in virtually most boys backyard epic battles!

Particularly after bingeing on Ivanhoe and Robin Hood with the sainted Richard Greene.

I made a bicycle inner tube castle defense cross bow thing that fired a 3 foot plat stake. To this day I shudder at the thought of shooting it at another kid. I did BTW but somehow realized that it wasn't a great idea.

Let me rephrase that: it was a great idea, just not if aimed at other kids.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ed

Particularly after bingeing on Ivanhoe and Robin Hood with the sainted Richard Greene.

I made a bicycle inner tube castle defense cross bow thing that fired a 3 foot plat stake. To this day I shudder at the thought of shooting it at another kid. I did BTW but somehow realized that it wasn't a great idea.

Let me rephrase that: it was a great idea, just not if aimed at other kids.

Yikes Ed! You must have been a formidable foe in these 'war games'. Most of the stuff was 'wild west' with the popularity of the western films, but the popping cap guns were pretty harmless. BUT, BB guns (the trusty Daisy and Red Ryder) rifles uh, ouch!

[Jim McDougall]

As a boy of about 9, I saw the movie "King of the Khyber Rifles" with Tyrone Power. My interest in the British in India was already raging with "Gunga Din" and "Lives of a Bengal Lancer". This movie, in color, was larger than life, and it seems there were caves and drama, intrigue which fascinated me. However, the title made a deep impression and I wondered in years to follow, 'just WHAT was a Khyber Rifle?
I did not recall or realize that the character in the movie was Capt, Alan King, played by Tyrone Power.
Years passed, and in the early 70s, I saw a newspaper article about the Khyber Pass titled something like 'still heading them off at the Khyber' and mentioned the 1953 film.......I was gone!!!

Years of research led me to the book "King of the Khyber Rifles" (Talbot Mundy, 1916) the basis for the movies..............then further I found that this was based on Sir Robert Burton titled "Eighteen Years in the Khyber" (1900) and told of his exploits commanding native units there in late 19th c.
Like in the Mundy book and movie, Warburton was both British and Afghan.

The 'Khyber Rifles' were a British army police levy comprised mostly of Afridi forces who were originally armed with their own tribal jezail long guns. These tribesmen were deadly snipers with these guns as told by Kipling in his famed poem "Frontier Arithmetic". ....and the book by Warburton has one of these on the cover (pictured).

In time the unit replaced the jezails with the modified Snider-Enfield rifle , a muzzle load musket converted to breech loading. A number of years later, these were replaced with the Martini-Henry rifle, also breech load.

So HERE were the KHYBER RIFLES, actually a British paramilitary unit in the Khyber Pass, and THESE were the types of rifles used.
The seeds of my curiosity planted in that movie seen as a young boy, and recalled two decades later, sent me on a quest researching this to the present day, and acquiring these rifles.
The badge was incredibly elusive and found one just two years ago.

[corrado26]

The only firearm I can remember and which has been very impressiv for me as a youngster was the "silverrifle" of Winnetou, the chief of Apaches, written by Karl May

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

As a boy of about 9, I saw the movie "King of the Khyber Rifles" with Tyrone Power. My interest in the British in India was already raging with "Gunga Din" and "Lives of a Bengal Lancer". .

Great story, thank you for sharing.

[Ed]

How could I have forgotten?



A movie theater was literally around the corner from me when I was a kid. I went to see this (alone!!!) and stayed in the theater for 3 showings. I was 8.

Thinking about it, it explains a lot.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The only firearm I can remember and which has been very impressiv for me as a youngster was the "silverrifle" of Winnetou, the chief of Apaches, written by Karl May

This is a fascinating entry Udo!!! The best thing about this kind of discussion is not just sharing memories and inspirations from sources we recall as kids, but learning about things we may not have known about.
I honestly had never heard of these stories, but it explains a lot about the European fascination with the 'wild west' in the late 19th century.

I wonder what type of rifle or gun was being depicted in the illustrations, and what I could find described it as a 'double barrel' gun, yet it has the artists rendering appearing to be in the form of a Kentucky long rifle.
While not nit picking with accuracy in the historicity of the wonderful literature and movies we saw as youngsters, it is interesting to look into what models or influences might have affected writers, artists and producers of films.

Thank you for adding this! Excited to learn more on "Winnetou" !

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ed

How could I have forgotten?



A movie theater was literally around the corner from me when I was a kid. I went to see this (alone!!!) and stayed in the theater for 3 showings. I was 8.

Thinking about it, it explains a lot.

Absolutely, a great movie!! Theater that close would have been a real problem for me...probably would have moved in!!!
While its great having movies etc available endlessly in our own homes these days, I really miss the big screen of theaters (and popcorn)
In the small town in Texas where I live, the only theater is closed and the nearest is a considerable distance in the next city.

[Victrix]

As a child of
7-9 years old I developed a strong interest in history. My favourite TV series was “Once upon a time.” (See pic below) Maybe it partly triggered my interest. My grandmother also encouraged it. When I reached my early teens she gave me the best Christmas gift ever! She gave me the cavalry sword of her late brother who was an officer in Kungliga Norrlands Dragoner stationed at K4 in Umeå. That triggered my interest in swords. Sadly her brother passed away at a relatively young age from tubercolosis. She kept his sword all those years and then gave it to me when she sensed an interest. Now it proudly hangs on the wall in my study.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Victrix

As a child of
7-9 years old I developed a strong interest in history. My favourite TV series was “Once upon a time.” (See pic below) Maybe it partly triggered my interest. My grandmother also encouraged it. When I reached my early teens she gave me the best Christmas gift ever! She gave me the cavalry sword of her late brother who was an officer in Kungliga Norrlands Dragoner stationed at K4 in Umeå. That triggered my interest in swords. Sadly her brother passed away at a relatively young age from tubercolosis. She kept his sword all those years and then gave it to me when she sensed an interest. Now it proudly hangs on the wall in my study.

While I dont know the series, I can see by the cartoons it explored the entire spectrum of history, and what a great way to expose youngsters to it!
If only our schooling of today taught history with any degree of dimension to kids, but thankfully these kinds of media venues provide the prompts to bring interest.

What an amazing and personal story of this cavalry sword! and all the better as it belonged to your great uncle, which brought you into the history it had seen with him. To have the actual weapon(s) of family members who have literally been involved in history themselves is pure treasure!!!
I'd love to see pics of the sword and him!

It is amazing at what a comprehensive interest this brought to you, and the knowledge on swords in general you gained and share here constantly.
Thank you for that and for sharing this.

[werecow]

When I was a kid I had already caught the more general collecting bug, and I was obsessed mainly with the Suske & Wiske comic books. I collected every one I could find and in several of them they went back to musketeer times:



I was already starting to become a bit obsessed with swords around that time and I really wanted one of those cup hilts. My first one was plastic. Now I have this one:



I still think of this as my Suske & Wiske sword.

Eventually I started a sword-like object collection with a friend of mine around the age of ten that consisted primarily of this kind of thing:



We used to playfight with these and they were pretty blade heavy. It's kind of a wonder we didn't bludgeon each other into the hospital. But that always had me wondering how those swordsmen could move those swords so fast in the movies, and because of that unwieldiness of those fake swords, I'm still very much fascinated by the feel of the weight distribution of various real swords and how big a difference that can make in their handling characteristics (which is why I am always a bit disappointed if a sword blade is loose when I buy it from abroad as it makes it more difficult to wave them around slightly). I was extremely jealous of my friend when one day he came home from vacation in Spain with a toreador sword and one of those Collada del Cid repros (we later did modern fencing together as an outflow of this shared sword fascination but I always found it a bit disappointing in how abstracted it was from the real thing and I was pretty terrible tbh; still, I should try my hand at HEMA some time).

I'll add here a story I told recently on Matt Easton's youtube channel. My uncle had a sword he got in Nigeria (a takouba, I later learned) and I was of course obsessed with it. Here in the Netherlands we celebrate Sinterklaas with presents which have a poem attached and are sometimes wrapped in a kind of arts and crafts project of sorts. One Sinterklaas in 1993, I got one of a paper maché dinosaur and my uncle's sword! The poem told me to slay the dinosaur. Inside were tickets to see Jurassic Park (dinosaurs were another obsession). I got to keep the sword, and I still have it until this day.



It's not sharp and it's not the highest quality takouba out there (and the blade is a bit loose in the hilt) but of course that one will never leave my collection.
It took me another 25+ years to start a real sword collection.

[Jim McDougall]

Very good points about the balance of swords and the impact of awkward weight and balance in wielding the reproductions in many cases, or the fantasy types. I recall in years later when I took fencing...my dad grumbled, 'oh good, something you can always use!'
We exercised for quite a while before we ever began using the blades, and it was surprising how quickly you could be spent in many forms of these combats.

With kids using 'real' swords playfully (this often accounts for many of the supposed combat nicks in blades) I can recall once I had been asked about a sword a guy had, and I called him to tell him it was a Caucasian shashka.
He had no idea what it was, and then asked, well what is it worth?

I told him.......he gasped and looked out at his young sun whacking away at weeds and brush with it in the backyard, instantly screaming....AUUUGHHH! STOP IT AND BRING THAT SWORD IN HERE , NOW!!!


Werecow, FANTASTIC cuphilt BTW!!!!

[francantolin]

Thank you for have created this post !
A lot of different influences with movies but two TV series seems to be the most important for me:

Sandokan , the tiger of Malaysia
And Zorro from Walt Disney

A lot of fights in the schoolyard with sticks 😅

PS: in Zorro, my favorite character was the Sergent Garcia 😁😁

[francantolin]

I just read that Guy Williams , the actor who played Zorro in the serie did himself all stunts and fights in all episodes.
the swords tip were uncovered and he was hurted two times.
Hooray for Zorro 💪🙂

[Jim McDougall]

Francantolin, I absolutely was powerfully moved by the Zorro movies! from the old Fairbanks films, Tyrone Power in the later versions, and of course the Disney series. Growing up in Southern Calif. the Spanish influence, scenery and the architecture of course was all around.

It was of course the SWASHBUCKLING that piqued the 'heroic' gene in most of us as young boys, and for me in later years taking fencing. Actually much of what we studied was 'stage combat' which naturally was quite a bit different from the more regulated forms with foil, saber and epee.

From what I have understood, in many cases swords were somehow rebated or altered to prevent injuries, but not always adequately. Many of the stars were actually trained in swordplay, but one of the most dangerous situations were being paired with opponents less than properly trained. Usually it was the more dynamic actions used in staged combat that injuries might occur, as these were by no means part of normal swordplay.

Sgt. Garcia was indeed a colorful character, and these performances would not have been the same without him!

Im glad you guys have mentioned these comics and stories which I had not heard of and now am interested in learning more on them!

Werecow, great on that TAKOUBA! and you should NEVER let it go! It has served as the benchmark for the joyful adventure you, like us, have gone into lifelong! I still have my first 'purchased' sword too......it was a rusty relic of a British M1796 heavy cavalry sword, which had the blade broken and welded back together. It was a lot of $ for me in those days, but what excited my young awareness was it matched a picture of one in a book. Then I began reading about the history of these swords, and that they were carried at Waterloo! It was thrilling to have and hold a sword like the ones carried by the Scots Greys in that battle! History came alive!

[gp]

as a young boy I recall being wild about 4 series in the sixties;

1. Ivanhoe with Roger Moore, based upon Sir Walter Scot's novel about Sir Wilfred of Ivanhoe during the 12th century reign of King Richard the Lionheart

2. the French series Thierry la Fronde ( the slingshot), played by Belgium actor Jean-Claude Drouot, during the Hundred Years' War, France occupied by the English, and the Black Prince rules France with an iron fist. In Sologne in the heart of France, Thierry of Janville is the hero.

3. a young Rutger Hauer in the series Floris , made by Paul Verhoeven, about the Burgundy wars in the Netherlands.

4. and a marvelous German series "Die merkwürdige Lebensgeschichte des Friedrich Freiherrn von der Trenck" / The Peculiar Life Story of Friedrich, Baron von der Trenck being Trencks history by the outstanding actor Matthias Habich

did any of you lads seen this series...?

[gp]

talkin' 'bout Rutger...2 movies

Ladyhawk and Flesh & Blood

[gp]

and not to forget Nikolaj Gogol's "Taras Bulba"...about the Zaporozhian Cossacks

romantisized film in 62 with Tony Curtis and Yul Brynner and in 2008 a more realistic one with Bogdan Stupka

[gp]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The only firearm I can remember and which has been very impressiv for me as a youngster was the "silverrifle" of Winnetou, the chief of Apaches, written by Karl May

did you not see "Lederstrumpf" with Hellmut Lange.....?

or am I too old...☺☻☺

[werecow]

As a Dutchie, I also grew up with Floris, and Ivanhoe of course! And of course there were the three musketeers.

And I think various versions of Robin Hood instilled a moderate bow and arrow obsession in me. My sword collecting elementary school friend and I used to shoot bamboo shoots from the yard into the air randomly with his bow (it's kind of amazing we survived childhood now that I'm thinking about all the weaponry again, even if most of it was fake) - which in hindsight I think may have been some form of Indonesian traditional bow; I remember it was small but too heavy for us to fully draw, and had a quiver attached in front of the grip, kind of like the one below (but I think smaller and with a different curvature). I've just recently started dabbling in archery again.