A proto-American boarding axe?

M ELEY · 8th January 2025, 02:33 AM

Well, I saw this in an online auction and had to pause. Listed as a 'Rare Ice Axe', I couldn't help but wonder if this could be a precursor to the American Type I boarding axe or even a 'private purchase' type one-off copy of said naval tool. The auction house ignored my request for dimensions, which would have helped greatly in ruling such a theory out!

After intensely searching the web for a month, I wasn't able to prove or disprove my theory. It is NOT an ice cutting axe, nor lathing axe, shingling axe, Masonic/fraternal, shingling/wood-chopping, etc! I guess it could be a mountaineering/climbing axe, but could find no comparisons with the 'teeth'. Maybe a type of fire axe, but agin, I could find no comparisons. I ended up passing on it in my uncertainty and hoped it would go for a big sum so I wouldn't kick myself, but it went for very minimal. Figures...

So, opinions? CC, are ya out there, buddy? Broadaxe? Jim McD? My curiosity is killing me!

M ELEY · 8th January 2025, 02:35 AM

Having trouble posting pics. Let me try again. Couldn't download the pics, so here's the auction-

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...1_rare-ice-axe

M ELEY · 8th January 2025, 04:56 AM

Here's a Type I and Type III, showing the spiked edge (Type III image from The Pirate's Lair website for comparison only)

Interested Party · 8th January 2025, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Having trouble posting pics. Let me try again.

Is this the one? My gut says tool and that the spikes are a comb, but for what? I think the handle is a recent replacement. Too bad they didn't post a pic of the eye.

Jim McDougall · 8th January 2025, 02:46 PM

Capn, this one is a conundrum! While having the character of hafted axes for various uses by virtue of the shaft itself, there is nothing about the head which resembles an 'ice axe' nor any sort of boarding axe.
Personally I think it was wise to pass without having any sort of comparison to align this with.
I have no idea what was in the sellers 'detail' nor how they arrived at or supported the classification of this as an ice axe, presuming they mean the type used by mountaineers.
The 'pick' is anything but a spike and its rounded character seems to suggest it has become the 'adze' (=blade) ? while the part of the head supposed to be the actual adze is something akin to the head of a rake.

Clearly some sort of hafted tool or implement, not sure what maritime application would be at hand, but as we know, over the years we have seen bizarre items that had some arcane use in period, now long forgotten.

Hopefully somebody out there might recognize this curious item for future reference.

As point of reference for the 'ice axe' denomination, an 1872 illustration from Wiki.

M ELEY · 8th January 2025, 03:47 PM

Hello Interested Party and thanks for responding. No, this was another axe from the same grouping, but the one I was trying to post was auction #0200. For some reason, couldn't get the pics to post.

This one you posted was also losted as an ice axe. it's a weird one as well and have no clue what it was used for!

M ELEY · 8th January 2025, 03:53 PM

Hello Jim and thank you for coming in on this one! For once, I'm glad to hear this isn't what I thought it might be!

Usually, I'll jump the gun and take a chance. If it had some maritime provenance, it would have been worth quite a bit.

Please note that the pic posted by Interested Party is NOT the piece in question, but still, if you can see the auction post, there are definately no solid answers. An adze or perhaps a 'climbing' mountaineer axe might be the best suggestion. I wish I could have gotten the pics to post for future reference, as more floks over time might be able to solidly pinpoint this odd fellow down!

Jim McDougall · 8th January 2025, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Hello Jim and thank you for coming in on this one! For once, I'm glad to hear this isn't what I thought it might be!

Usually, I'll jump the gun and take a chance. If it had some maritime provenance, it would have been worth quite a bit.

Please note that the pic posted by Interested Party is NOT the piece in question, but still, if you can see the auction post, there are definately no solid answers. An adze or perhaps a 'climbing' mountaineer axe might be the best suggestion. I wish I could have gotten the pics to post for future reference, as more floks over time might be able to solidly pinpoint this odd fellow down!

Thanks Capn,
I tried to access the auction site but for some reason after the third time still could not make it. This is often the case in my experience with many online situations. I could not imagine how this 'rake' (?) could be misconstrued for an ice axe! From what I can gather, ice axes seem fairly consistent in their composition comprised simply of blade and pick head, on a shaft often with a spike.

Just curious as a point of curiosity, with boarding axes and such maritime items, do they typically have rack or issue numbers? The really great items have initials of the ships they were assigned to, and these seem to have remained in place for considerable time.

M ELEY · 8th January 2025, 05:11 PM

Excellent point, Jim, conerning rack numbers on boarding axes. It stands to reason that if it were a true naval boarding axe, they would have had some type of official marking and possible rack number. However, many of those shown in Gilkerson had the U.S. stamp (or British broad arrow or French manufacturing company, etc, etc, depending on the country), many didn't have rack numbers. Likewise, if it were for the merchantile fleet, it could have quite a different shape than the traditional government-issue boarding axes. Just like the private purchase cutlasses for privateers varied in shape from the traditional cutlasses of the naval powers, so too could boarding axes.

I think this might work here-

M ELEY · 8th January 2025, 05:28 PM

The whole item with haft-

CutlassCollector · 9th January 2025, 01:39 PM

Hi Mark,

I can see what you mean it does have a similarity to American boarding axes. Possibly it was an early version or a private purchase copying the government models. It certainly looks as though it was designed for dragging and it has an axe blade (I think) and a good spike.
On the downside it looks on the heavy side, looking at the thickness of the metal of the teeth. It certainly is a strange one and I cannot think of another use for those teeth. I would have given it a miss as well.

But not as weird as the 'rake' axe. And Jim is surely right - no way is that an ice axe!

I have checked my axe and tool books and although there are hundreds of axe types, there are no examples that help with either of these ones.

The 'teeth' on American boarding axes has always intrigued me as they would not seem to increase the dragging capability by much. Perhaps they were designed to make it more fearsome in the face of the enemy. There is no doubt that the teeth denoted, without doubt, a US design and not copied from the Brits!!

CutlassCollector · 9th January 2025, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Just curious as a point of curiosity, with boarding axes and such maritime items, do they typically have rack or issue numbers? The really great items have initials of the ships they were assigned to, and these seem to have remained in place for considerable time.

Rack numbers are not often found on boarding axes with the exception of British 1859 model axes which sometimes have a diamond shaped brass plate, rivetted to the handle, with a rack number similar to those found on cutlasses.
I have not seen a US axe with a rack number but then there are few survivors, so that is not conclusive.

As Mark says most of regulation models have ownership marks, such as US or the broad arrow, or an anchor for French axes. But private purchase axes may not be marked at all.

Interested Party · 9th January 2025, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CutlassCollector

But not as weird as the 'rake' axe. And Jim is surely right - no way is that an ice axe!

I have checked my axe and tool books and although there are hundreds of axe types, there are no examples that help with either of these ones.

Have we considered that ice ax is not a piolet but is an ice ax. The teeth could be for chipping large amounts of ice.

M ELEY · 9th January 2025, 03:35 PM

Hello CC! Great to hear from you!

Thanks for your information! For once, I am glad for the disappointing news that it is probably not a boarding piece! As you pointed out, it would have been great to have the dimensions and weight on this item, but the auction house never replied with that information! From the pics, it does look a little 'thick'. I've learned the hard way that size with trade/frontier/tool axes mean everything! A hammer pole ax in a picture can appear as big as a sledgehammer and vice versa. I appreciate you taking the time to look through your thorough resources as well. It seems there are a lot of strange tool-axes out there!

Hello Interested Party,

This odd 'rake axe' also caught my eye when this auction started (they had a big 'lot' of some great original spike tomahawk axes and pole axes. This one is just so weird, I don't even know about the design and I can't even venture a guess. As far as the original one I posted, if it is a heavy axe with thick proportions (which we don't know the specs!), I guess it could be an ice axe for splitting and dragging ice blocks. However, for such laborous work, I'd expect a thicker, heavier haft. This one has a smaller handle. Maybe it was for separating flax!

Yep, I'm kidding!

Interested Party · Yesterday, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

This odd 'rake axe' also caught my eye when this auction started (they had a big 'lot' of some great original spike tomahawk axes and pole axes. This one is just so weird, I don't even know about the design and I can't even venture a guess. As far as the original one I posted, if it is a heavy axe with thick proportions (which we don't know the specs!), I guess it could be an ice axe for splitting and dragging ice blocks. However, for such laborous work, I'd expect a thicker, heavier haft. This one has a smaller handle. Maybe it was for separating flax!

Yep, I'm kidding!

Haha the flax thing crossed my mind for a second as well. My only guess is chipping ice. It would not drag well. Sorry I thought that this was the one you were writing about originally as it came up in the link.

Once I saw the one you were speaking of I could see the similarities to a boarding ax.

8th January 2025, 02:33 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	A proto-American boarding axe? Well, I saw this in an online auction and had to pause. Listed as a 'Rare Ice Axe', I couldn't help but wonder if this could be a precursor to the American Type I boarding axe or even a 'private purchase' type one-off copy of said naval tool. The auction house ignored my request for dimensions, which would have helped greatly in ruling such a theory out! After intensely searching the web for a month, I wasn't able to prove or disprove my theory. It is NOT an ice cutting axe, nor lathing axe, shingling axe, Masonic/fraternal, shingling/wood-chopping, etc! I guess it could be a mountaineering/climbing axe, but could find no comparisons with the 'teeth'. Maybe a type of fire axe, but agin, I could find no comparisons. I ended up passing on it in my uncertainty and hoped it would go for a big sum so I wouldn't kick myself, but it went for very minimal. Figures... So, opinions? CC, are ya out there, buddy? Broadaxe? Jim McD? My curiosity is killing me!

8th January 2025, 02:35 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	Having trouble posting pics. Let me try again. Couldn't download the pics, so here's the auction- https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...1_rare-ice-axe Last edited by M ELEY; 8th January 2025 at 04:49 AM. Reason: File won't load-

8th January 2025, 04:56 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	For comparison- Here's a Type I and Type III, showing the spiked edge (Type III image from The Pirate's Lair website for comparison only) Attached Images

8th January 2025, 02:46 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,991	Capn, this one is a conundrum! While having the character of hafted axes for various uses by virtue of the shaft itself, there is nothing about the head which resembles an 'ice axe' nor any sort of boarding axe. Personally I think it was wise to pass without having any sort of comparison to align this with. I have no idea what was in the sellers 'detail' nor how they arrived at or supported the classification of this as an ice axe, presuming they mean the type used by mountaineers. The 'pick' is anything but a spike and its rounded character seems to suggest it has become the 'adze' (=blade) ? while the part of the head supposed to be the actual adze is something akin to the head of a rake. Clearly some sort of hafted tool or implement, not sure what maritime application would be at hand, but as we know, over the years we have seen bizarre items that had some arcane use in period, now long forgotten. Hopefully somebody out there might recognize this curious item for future reference. As point of reference for the 'ice axe' denomination, an 1872 illustration from Wiki. Attached Images

8th January 2025, 03:47 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	Hello Interested Party and thanks for responding. No, this was another axe from the same grouping, but the one I was trying to post was auction #0200. For some reason, couldn't get the pics to post. This one you posted was also losted as an ice axe. it's a weird one as well and have no clue what it was used for! Last edited by M ELEY; 8th January 2025 at 05:34 PM.

8th January 2025, 03:53 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	Relieved! Hello Jim and thank you for coming in on this one! For once, I'm glad to hear this isn't what I thought it might be! Usually, I'll jump the gun and take a chance. If it had some maritime provenance, it would have been worth quite a bit. Please note that the pic posted by Interested Party is NOT the piece in question, but still, if you can see the auction post, there are definately no solid answers. An adze or perhaps a 'climbing' mountaineer axe might be the best suggestion. I wish I could have gotten the pics to post for future reference, as more floks over time might be able to solidly pinpoint this odd fellow down!

8th January 2025, 05:11 PM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	Excellent point, Jim, conerning rack numbers on boarding axes. It stands to reason that if it were a true naval boarding axe, they would have had some type of official marking and possible rack number. However, many of those shown in Gilkerson had the U.S. stamp (or British broad arrow or French manufacturing company, etc, etc, depending on the country), many didn't have rack numbers. Likewise, if it were for the merchantile fleet, it could have quite a different shape than the traditional government-issue boarding axes. Just like the private purchase cutlasses for privateers varied in shape from the traditional cutlasses of the naval powers, so too could boarding axes. I think this might work here- Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 8th January 2025 at 05:22 PM.

8th January 2025, 05:28 PM	#10
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	Another full view The whole item with haft- Attached Images

9th January 2025, 01:39 PM	#11
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 335	Hi Mark, I can see what you mean it does have a similarity to American boarding axes. Possibly it was an early version or a private purchase copying the government models. It certainly looks as though it was designed for dragging and it has an axe blade (I think) and a good spike. On the downside it looks on the heavy side, looking at the thickness of the metal of the teeth. It certainly is a strange one and I cannot think of another use for those teeth. I would have given it a miss as well. But not as weird as the 'rake' axe. And Jim is surely right - no way is that an ice axe! I have checked my axe and tool books and although there are hundreds of axe types, there are no examples that help with either of these ones. The 'teeth' on American boarding axes has always intrigued me as they would not seem to increase the dragging capability by much. Perhaps they were designed to make it more fearsome in the face of the enemy. There is no doubt that the teeth denoted, without doubt, a US design and not copied from the Brits!!

9th January 2025, 03:35 PM	#14
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,112	Hello CC! Great to hear from you! Thanks for your information! For once, I am glad for the disappointing news that it is probably not a boarding piece! As you pointed out, it would have been great to have the dimensions and weight on this item, but the auction house never replied with that information! From the pics, it does look a little 'thick'. I've learned the hard way that size with trade/frontier/tool axes mean everything! A hammer pole ax in a picture can appear as big as a sledgehammer and vice versa. I appreciate you taking the time to look through your thorough resources as well. It seems there are a lot of strange tool-axes out there! Hello Interested Party, This odd 'rake axe' also caught my eye when this auction started (they had a big 'lot' of some great original spike tomahawk axes and pole axes. This one is just so weird, I don't even know about the design and I can't even venture a guess. As far as the original one I posted, if it is a heavy axe with thick proportions (which we don't know the specs!), I guess it could be an ice axe for splitting and dragging ice blocks. However, for such laborous work, I'd expect a thicker, heavier haft. This one has a smaller handle. Maybe it was for separating flax! Yep, I'm kidding! Last edited by M ELEY; 9th January 2025 at 10:16 PM.