Help identify cutlass marking please

kronckew · 17th December 2024, 03:11 PM

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall;294834]... It is noted that these were IDENTICAL to those issued to the Coast Guard (no date of these noted but probably early in the century).
...
What is unusual with this saber is the LANGETS. The Coast Guard cutlasses had the extra bar on the guard and NO langets. It seems langets were absent of either cutlasses, and the later mountain artillery swords..../QUOTE]

See also Coast Guard Sword

The amalgamation of the various sections into the Coast Guard in 1822/23 saw the Coastal Riding service adopting their own sword shortly thereafter, as mentioned in "British Naval Swords & Swordsmanship" by Mc Grath and Barton, ©️2013, page 25. After 1856 these were repurposed for the mountain troops and the Hospital corps, the CG adopting the then current model Naval cutlasses. The CG became a civilian volunteer service and unarmed in 1923.

Mine: (I've cleaned off the rust on thscabbard & re-lacquered it since this photo - and It has a suitable belt frog.)

adrian · 17th December 2024, 08:30 PM

I am not a sword collector per se so I have very few reference books on the subject.
From researching firearms of this period I encounter material on other arms and I note that there were a few 'stand out' brief spates of concentrating on making arms for the Coast Guard and, as well as Muskets, carbines and pistols, swords/cutlasses were also included.

There were 1500 'cutlasses' to be made at Enfield in 1831, with some urgency (WO 47/2702, 21 Mar). At this time there were also a lot of pistols made for that service, P/1833 Coast Guard Pistols.

Next notable orders were 1000 x short flintlock muskets made in 1844, the P/1844 Coast Guard Muskets - the last Ordnance made flintlock muskets. In that same year 800 Coast Guard Swords were ordered to be mounted at Enfield from blades already in stock. The other materials for those were malleable cast iron grips from Thomas Clive, the grips Japanned by Charles Dunn & the brass guards were from Samuel Hargroves (WO47 1992-2027, 13 Mar).

Note that in this period the nomenclature was very 'loose', with 'sea service sword', 'cutlass' and 'sword' being used sometimes for the same weapon. Just as for land service 'scimitar' had been used fairly regularly for the P/1797 Light Cavalry Sword, and other cavalry swords etc.

Do modern sword reference books describe the two orders (1831 & 1844) of Coast Guard swords/cutlasses? And if so are they all the same, or are there small differences?

Are the blades of the Coast Guard swords/cutlasses made from altered P/1797 Light Cavalry Sword blades?

17th December 2024, 03:11 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	[QUOTE=Jim McDougall;294834]... It is noted that these were IDENTICAL to those issued to the Coast Guard (no date of these noted but probably early in the century). ... What is unusual with this saber is the LANGETS. The Coast Guard cutlasses had the extra bar on the guard and NO langets. It seems langets were absent of either cutlasses, and the later mountain artillery swords..../QUOTE] See also Coast Guard Sword The amalgamation of the various sections into the Coast Guard in 1822/23 saw the Coastal Riding service adopting their own sword shortly thereafter, as mentioned in "British Naval Swords & Swordsmanship" by Mc Grath and Barton, ©️2013, page 25. After 1856 these were repurposed for the mountain troops and the Hospital corps, the CG adopting the then current model Naval cutlasses. The CG became a civilian volunteer service and unarmed in 1923. Mine: (I've cleaned off the rust on thscabbard & re-lacquered it since this photo - and It has a suitable belt frog.) Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 17th December 2024 at 03:23 PM.

17th December 2024, 08:30 PM	#2
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 130	I am not a sword collector per se so I have very few reference books on the subject. From researching firearms of this period I encounter material on other arms and I note that there were a few 'stand out' brief spates of concentrating on making arms for the Coast Guard and, as well as Muskets, carbines and pistols, swords/cutlasses were also included. There were 1500 'cutlasses' to be made at Enfield in 1831, with some urgency (WO 47/2702, 21 Mar). At this time there were also a lot of pistols made for that service, P/1833 Coast Guard Pistols. Next notable orders were 1000 x short flintlock muskets made in 1844, the P/1844 Coast Guard Muskets - the last Ordnance made flintlock muskets. In that same year 800 Coast Guard Swords were ordered to be mounted at Enfield from blades already in stock. The other materials for those were malleable cast iron grips from Thomas Clive, the grips Japanned by Charles Dunn & the brass guards were from Samuel Hargroves (WO47 1992-2027, 13 Mar). Note that in this period the nomenclature was very 'loose', with 'sea service sword', 'cutlass' and 'sword' being used sometimes for the same weapon. Just as for land service 'scimitar' had been used fairly regularly for the P/1797 Light Cavalry Sword, and other cavalry swords etc. Do modern sword reference books describe the two orders (1831 & 1844) of Coast Guard swords/cutlasses? And if so are they all the same, or are there small differences? Are the blades of the Coast Guard swords/cutlasses made from altered P/1797 Light Cavalry Sword blades? Last edited by adrian; 18th December 2024 at 01:28 AM.