Sold for over €85k

HughChen · 15th December 2024, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I thought that it would be good to place more photos of this keris here for our archives. Also i am posting photos of a Bali/Lombok keris that also achieved quite a high price at auction as well, €42,000. Buyers in this auction also pay 25% premiums on top of gavel prices plus tax, so at the end of the day even more was spent on these two keris.

Thank you for your showing of the €42,000 one. The blade seems much shorter than the scabbard. Does it indicate a wrong match or the blade had been repired before? Does anyone have some comments on this one?

jagabuwana · 15th December 2024, 11:47 AM

Alright, here's a crapshoot but here goes.

The greneng form here looks to me like a more overtly botanic version of the element mentioned in the thread "Gustav's Discovery" - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22975.

This element was one that appeared in some keris older than 1700-ish.

If that's true, then for this element be repeated so many times on this keris without having a single conventional ron dha between them would make this keris an exceeding rarity, if not totally unique.

As Alan has suggested, the keris abides by conventions, especially during a historical period that was organised strictly along social status and the pervasiveness of religio-spiritual meaning.

It's hard to me to believe that this supposedly very old keris is so unique and breaks so many contemporaneous conventions.

Perhaps whoever made this wanted to make a point by including a greneng and ron dha nunut made up entirely of an element that only appeared in older keris (and even then only sparingly).

David · 15th December 2024, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughChen

Thank you for your showing of the €42,000 one. The blade seems much shorter than the scabbard. Does it indicate a wrong match or the blade had been repired before? Does anyone have some comments on this one?

I could be wrong here, but my understanding if that keris in Bali are traditionally worn at the back so that the hilt rises up over the shoulder. In order to make wearing a keris in this manner practical it would be necessary for the dress to be a certain length regardless of the actual length of the blade. In my own collection i have a very short blade (by Bali standards) 13 inch blade in a sarung that is 21.5 inches long. It is very clear that the sarung was made specifically for this blade and equally clear that the blade has never been shortened. So it seems logical to my mind that the length of Balinese dress is more dictated by the manner in which the keris is worn in Bali than by the actual length of the blade.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2024, 12:52 AM

Not quite so David, Balinese keris can come in various lengths and various scabbard sizes, & when it is worn at the back, it is called "nyungklit", when worn at the waist it is "nyelet", when worn in front and slightly tilted it is called "nyote", when in hand and in defensive mode it is called "mukur".

When the culture police are patrolling during certain holy days, they invariably wear the keris as "nyote", ie, waist level, slightly tilted with the hilt towards the right hand.

When somebody is dressed for a formal occasion, they will usually wear the keris behind the shoulder when they are dressed in sarung, but if dressed with a jacket they normally carry the keris in their hand, &when it becomes necessary to have both hands free, they usually stick it into the setagen (waist sash) as a sort of cross between nyelet & nyungklit.

I have a few old --- in one case very old --- Balinese keris that are in smaller dress that would be quite impossible to wear at the back with the hilt rising behind the shoulder.

But putting all that to one side, yes, it is completely possible for a short keris to be dressed in a sarung that will permit it to be worn as nyungklit.

David · 16th December 2024, 02:54 PM

Thanks for the clarification Alan. I have never encountered Balinese keris is these shorter sarungs that you mention so they are outside my knowledge. But as you point out, smaller keris are somtimes housed in longer sarungs so that they can permit it to be worn as nyungklit. This was the point i was trying to get across to Hugh,
Do you have access to any old photographs that show Balinese wearing keris in either "nyelet" or "nyote" positions. I would love to see this. Thanks!

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2024, 06:45 PM

Probably not David, I don't take much notice of these old photos, many, if not most of them were posed. I do have a couple of old keris that are quite short, & I have a few photos of the Culture Police.

16th December 2024, 02:54 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,209	Thanks for the clarification Alan. I have never encountered Balinese keris is these shorter sarungs that you mention so they are outside my knowledge. But as you point out, smaller keris are somtimes housed in longer sarungs so that they can permit it to be worn as nyungklit. This was the point i was trying to get across to Hugh, Do you have access to any old photographs that show Balinese wearing keris in either "nyelet" or "nyote" positions. I would love to see this. Thanks! Last edited by David; 16th December 2024 at 03:25 PM.

15th December 2024, 11:47 AM	#2
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Alright, here's a crapshoot but here goes. The greneng form here looks to me like a more overtly botanic version of the element mentioned in the thread "Gustav's Discovery" - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22975. This element was one that appeared in some keris older than 1700-ish. If that's true, then for this element be repeated so many times on this keris without having a single conventional ron dha between them would make this keris an exceeding rarity, if not totally unique. As Alan has suggested, the keris abides by conventions, especially during a historical period that was organised strictly along social status and the pervasiveness of religio-spiritual meaning. It's hard to me to believe that this supposedly very old keris is so unique and breaks so many contemporaneous conventions. Perhaps whoever made this wanted to make a point by including a greneng and ron dha nunut made up entirely of an element that only appeared in older keris (and even then only sparingly).

16th December 2024, 12:52 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Not quite so David, Balinese keris can come in various lengths and various scabbard sizes, & when it is worn at the back, it is called "nyungklit", when worn at the waist it is "nyelet", when worn in front and slightly tilted it is called "nyote", when in hand and in defensive mode it is called "mukur". When the culture police are patrolling during certain holy days, they invariably wear the keris as "nyote", ie, waist level, slightly tilted with the hilt towards the right hand. When somebody is dressed for a formal occasion, they will usually wear the keris behind the shoulder when they are dressed in sarung, but if dressed with a jacket they normally carry the keris in their hand, &when it becomes necessary to have both hands free, they usually stick it into the setagen (waist sash) as a sort of cross between nyelet & nyungklit. I have a few old --- in one case very old --- Balinese keris that are in smaller dress that would be quite impossible to wear at the back with the hilt rising behind the shoulder. But putting all that to one side, yes, it is completely possible for a short keris to be dressed in a sarung that will permit it to be worn as nyungklit.

16th December 2024, 06:45 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Probably not David, I don't take much notice of these old photos, many, if not most of them were posed. I do have a couple of old keris that are quite short, & I have a few photos of the Culture Police.