Advice on another keris

milandro · 7th November 2024, 02:18 PM

very interesting and very preoccupying this information about the possibility that an older blade may be reforged adding a raindrop Damascus pattern which is what the western called something that looks like the udan mas pamor .

This would explain why I have noticed, at the very least in the NL, that there is a relative disproportionate number of udan mas krises appearing on the market lately.

I have to say that, if this is indeed the case, this shows , once again that even the remotest possibility to make an extra buck has become, in the kris market scene, the chance for unscrupulous vendors to do all manner of weird things.

So, there are a lot of so called river finds videos showing more or less disintegrated krises being fished out of the waters in Indonesia, these are quite obviously been immersed in acid and then marketed as antiques.

On another thread someone showed a Sundang Kris with an pamored insert of some sort , I asked then if this was a thin layer of material applied to the blade and lo and behold on Aliexpress you can buy pieces of more or less thin metal with Damascus patterns which may very well serve the purpose of being used to make an otherwise less interesting blade into a much nicer example, then makes the insert look older and a new product is born.

Forgeries are of all times and technology only makes them easier and more believable.

jagabuwana · 11th November 2024, 10:34 AM

Yes Milandro, forgery is rife and unfortunately there'll never be a shortage of supply.

But I don't think we can consider a blade being reworked for resale as a forgery. I suspect that it's always been the case that the keris (blade, accoutrements and all) have been reworked, repaired or otherwise made more attractive for resale purposes. I personally don't see an issue with this.

Those river finds on the other hand... For the quantity being found and sold you'd think people were dragging it with industrial sized nets and just hauling comical amounts of 'treasure'. El Dorado!

milandro · 11th November 2024, 11:57 AM

Perhaps not born a forgery but changing an original to enhance the sale possibilities by adding something AND not disclosing it to a buyer is certainly objectionable.

I see plenty of krises for sale claiming to be ancient when they very likely are not

Anyway, maybe OP's kris was born that way, we will most probably never know.

SidJ · 9th January 2025, 04:48 PM

Forgive the tangential digression but I could not resist responding to the river find keris racket we see at present. It seems that there are folk who try to utilise high school science of anaerobic conditions in the Indonesian rivers they come from added in with historical accounts of battles explaining why these are found on river bottoms in industrial quantities and such wonderful condition! There's a whole industry based around this sham it seems. I'm sure there are real ones out there but most seem fake and that taints the good ones.

7th November 2024, 02:18 PM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	very interesting and very preoccupying this information about the possibility that an older blade may be reforged adding a raindrop Damascus pattern which is what the western called something that looks like the udan mas pamor . This would explain why I have noticed, at the very least in the NL, that there is a relative disproportionate number of udan mas krises appearing on the market lately. I have to say that, if this is indeed the case, this shows , once again that even the remotest possibility to make an extra buck has become, in the kris market scene, the chance for unscrupulous vendors to do all manner of weird things. So, there are a lot of so called river finds videos showing more or less disintegrated krises being fished out of the waters in Indonesia, these are quite obviously been immersed in acid and then marketed as antiques. On another thread someone showed a Sundang Kris with an pamored insert of some sort , I asked then if this was a thin layer of material applied to the blade and lo and behold on Aliexpress you can buy pieces of more or less thin metal with Damascus patterns which may very well serve the purpose of being used to make an otherwise less interesting blade into a much nicer example, then makes the insert look older and a new product is born. Forgeries are of all times and technology only makes them easier and more believable.

11th November 2024, 10:34 AM	#2
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Yes Milandro, forgery is rife and unfortunately there'll never be a shortage of supply. But I don't think we can consider a blade being reworked for resale as a forgery. I suspect that it's always been the case that the keris (blade, accoutrements and all) have been reworked, repaired or otherwise made more attractive for resale purposes. I personally don't see an issue with this. Those river finds on the other hand... For the quantity being found and sold you'd think people were dragging it with industrial sized nets and just hauling comical amounts of 'treasure'. El Dorado!

11th November 2024, 11:57 AM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	Perhaps not born a forgery but changing an original to enhance the sale possibilities by adding something AND not disclosing it to a buyer is certainly objectionable. I see plenty of krises for sale claiming to be ancient when they very likely are not Anyway, maybe OP's kris was born that way, we will most probably never know.

9th January 2025, 04:48 PM	#4
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	Forgive the tangential digression but I could not resist responding to the river find keris racket we see at present. It seems that there are folk who try to utilise high school science of anaerobic conditions in the Indonesian rivers they come from added in with historical accounts of battles explaining why these are found on river bottoms in industrial quantities and such wonderful condition! There's a whole industry based around this sham it seems. I'm sure there are real ones out there but most seem fake and that taints the good ones.