Suggestions for care and respect of Javanese and Balinese Keris.

Bill M · 12th July 2006, 03:00 AM

David,

I think that you are right about the timing of smoking a keris. I was told Thursday night, because that would most likely be as close to the right night in Java. But I may have that wrong.

I would wonder if the spirit of the keris is Islamic oriented. Best I can tell the Indonesian version of Islam is a thin veneer over an animistic culture with its roots in the Neolithic.

So, perhaps, the keris (the Muslims have been here at least 400 years or so), could be Islamic oriented, over an animistic belief or it could be OR -- as I suspect -- a more pure spirit.

I also know that most of my keris have not been regularly smoked. I have heard that not feeding the spirit could caues his departure. So I would guess that most of my keris are empty houses. Beautiful empty houses, but the spirit is gone.

But the house is there. All it needs is a little turnkey. Some cleaning and polishing. The advertise for a new tenant. Then take care of him and he takes care of you!

Perhaps this is a crude attempt to explain a more beautiful and certainly more complex process, but a simple concept underlies this complexity.

In my 40 years of managing property, it has worked for me.

So how to attract a spirit back? Perhaps instead of Thursday night, we could work a little bit Western and find the right astrological time for our Moonchild ritual and bring a spirit into his new home. . . .

Mudi · 12th July 2006, 04:12 AM

In Indonesia there are many keris exhibition. What is important is that the keris not point to the ground when out of sarong.

It is true that Islam in Indonesia is not same as Arab or Middle East. The keris origin in Indonesia is from Majapahit empire, which was Hindu and Buddhist mix. Many of the Majapahit culture stay with Indonesia as Islam came as gamelan, wayang kulit, batik, dance. The Javanese culture prior to Islam was not animist. The Majapahit was very high culture and with great art. Borobudur temple is the largest Buddhist temple in the world and dates to 800AD.

If smoking keris means giving it incense, be careful as incense is the real food for the keris and only powerful keris with soul should be given incense. Indonesian collectors do not give incense to keris in collection. Only personal keris as worn on ceremony are given incense.

nechesh · 12th July 2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudi

In Indonesia there are many keris exhibition. What is important is that the keris not point to the ground when out of sarong.

It is true that Islam in Indonesia is not same as Arab or Middle East. The keris origin in Indonesia is from Majapahit empire, which was Hindu and Buddhist mix. Many of the Majapahit culture stay with Indonesia as Islam came as gamelan, wayang kulit, batik, dance. The Javanese culture prior to Islam was not animist. The Majapahit was very high culture and with great art. Borobudur temple is the largest Buddhist temple in the world and dates to 800AD.

But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudi

If smoking keris means giving it incense, be careful as incense is the real food for the keris and only powerful keris with soul should be given incense. Indonesian collectors do not give incense to keris in collection. Only personal keris as worn on ceremony are given incense.

I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful?

Mudi · 12th July 2006, 04:39 AM

But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence?

Same as US and Europe. Very primitive. Too bad we cannot ask Java Man

I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful?

All I can say is what I know of my own culture. No point in feeding a lion unless you need the lion to be strong for you.

A. G. Maisey · 12th July 2006, 05:04 AM

Yes, I agree, a waste of time to feed any lion.

A lion can seek his own food.

But a bajing?

A bajing needs to dart here and there in search of food, and when we wish to catch him in the trap we usually allow him to eat for a few days first.

In respect of Javanese culture, perhaps we should draw a distinction between the culture of the courts and the culture of the people.

nechesh · 12th July 2006, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudi

But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence?

Same as US and Europe. Very primitive. Too bad we cannot ask Java Man

I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful?

All I can say is what I know of my own culture. No point in feeding a lion unless you need the lion to be strong for you.

My first point was that it was an animistic cultural, from which there are many culture hold-overs even to this day. Your response to Bill was that Jawa was not animistic before Islam.

Certainly i wasn't suggesting that you don't know your only culture. I was just curious about what appeared to be a warning you made not to feed a keris that has no power (is souless). If, in fact, it has no power then what harm can come of it?
Frankly, i need all my lions to be strong.

Mudi · 12th July 2006, 06:50 AM

My first point was that it was an animistic cultural, from which there are many culture hold-overs even to this day.

Sorry but I do not understand what you mean. In many parts of Indonesia there are still tribal culture. Do you mean Java was tribal before Islam?

Your response to Bill was that Jawa was not animistic before Islam.

Yes, Java was not animist before Islam. That is true. It was a high culture of Hindu and Buddhist.

If you give incense to a keris you can give it life again. The same is for topeng barong. We believe that if you feed keris, and then stop it can turn on you or bring bad luck.

A. G. Maisey · 12th July 2006, 09:15 AM

Pak Mudi, I most sincerely regret that I must differ from you in your opinion that Jawa was not home to an animist culture prior to the establishment of Islam.

In fact, in many respects, and in many places, Jawa is still an animist culture.

Although Indonesia is the world`s most populous Islamic nation, the truth is that only a very small percentage of people in Indonesia are devout Muslims, and only about 6,5% could be regarded as Islamic conservatives. The vast majority of people in Jawa, particularly, are Muslim KTP. Abangan.

When the nation of Indonesia was established one of the principles of its foundation was religious freedom. All were entitled to follow the religion of their choice. Regretably, the act of choice was compulsory.You could be any religion that you wished, but you could not be of no religion. The result was that a very large number of people who could not have been considered Muslim by any stretch of the imagination, opted to be identified as Muslim. The flowon from this was that Jawa in particular has developed a form of Islam that would not be recognised as Islam in many other Islamic countries.In fact, once away from the major cities, it would be difficult not to categorise this rural form of Javanese Islam as Islamic-Animism, which of course is something of an oxymoron, but then, Jawa itself is a place of many contradictions.

Animism may be briefly defined as:-

A belief that individual spirits inhabit objects , that spirits are separable from physical bodies, and that a spiritual force permeates the universe.

This belief is active in many parts of Jawa today, and it most certainly did exist in combination with the form of the Hindu faith practiced by the court in Majapahit.

The ordinary people of Jawa have never wholeheartedly followed the religion practiced by the courts of Jawa, whatever that religion may have been at any point in time. The courts in turn have adapted their practice of the Hindu faith, or Islam, to accomodate the beliefs of the ordinary people.

Yes, certainly, the court culture of the Majapahit Kingdom can be regarded as high culture by any standard, but the further any place in Jawa was from the influence of the court, the more there was likely to be a domination of the belief system of the inhabitants of that place by traditional animist beliefs and ancestor worship.

It should be noted that animist beliefs are not necessarily exclusive of other religious beliefs. For instance , the Toraja who I am certain you, Pak Mudi, would be very familiar with, practice a unique form of Christian-Animism.

I find it very interesting that you, Pak Mudi, tell us that if we feed a keris we can give it life, and that if we fail to continue to feed it, the keris could turn on us bring misfortune.

I put it to you that no keris is ever going to be capable of turning on anybody and bringing that person misfortune, or for that matter, good fortune.A keris is simply a physical object made of metal, by a man. Can a man create life? Of course not! Only God can create life, so how can something made by man develop any life of its own?

However, perhaps an object made by man can become a vessel for a spiritual force.

If this spiritual force enters the keris, it is the spiritual force that may bring fortune or misfortune, not the keris itself.

And any of this can only happen if the human being concerned believes that it can happen.

The keris itself must be viewed separately from any spiritual force that may be believed to be within it.

Now, if this is not animist belief, then what is it?

12th July 2006, 03:00 AM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	David, I think that you are right about the timing of smoking a keris. I was told Thursday night, because that would most likely be as close to the right night in Java. But I may have that wrong. I would wonder if the spirit of the keris is Islamic oriented. Best I can tell the Indonesian version of Islam is a thin veneer over an animistic culture with its roots in the Neolithic. So, perhaps, the keris (the Muslims have been here at least 400 years or so), could be Islamic oriented, over an animistic belief or it could be OR -- as I suspect -- a more pure spirit. I also know that most of my keris have not been regularly smoked. I have heard that not feeding the spirit could caues his departure. So I would guess that most of my keris are empty houses. Beautiful empty houses, but the spirit is gone. But the house is there. All it needs is a little turnkey. Some cleaning and polishing. The advertise for a new tenant. Then take care of him and he takes care of you! Perhaps this is a crude attempt to explain a more beautiful and certainly more complex process, but a simple concept underlies this complexity. In my 40 years of managing property, it has worked for me. So how to attract a spirit back? Perhaps instead of Thursday night, we could work a little bit Western and find the right astrological time for our Moonchild ritual and bring a spirit into his new home. . . .

12th July 2006, 04:12 AM	#2
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	In Indonesia there are many keris exhibition. What is important is that the keris not point to the ground when out of sarong. It is true that Islam in Indonesia is not same as Arab or Middle East. The keris origin in Indonesia is from Majapahit empire, which was Hindu and Buddhist mix. Many of the Majapahit culture stay with Indonesia as Islam came as gamelan, wayang kulit, batik, dance. The Javanese culture prior to Islam was not animist. The Majapahit was very high culture and with great art. Borobudur temple is the largest Buddhist temple in the world and dates to 800AD. If smoking keris means giving it incense, be careful as incense is the real food for the keris and only powerful keris with soul should be given incense. Indonesian collectors do not give incense to keris in collection. Only personal keris as worn on ceremony are given incense.

12th July 2006, 04:39 AM	#4
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence? Same as US and Europe. Very primitive. Too bad we cannot ask Java Man I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful? All I can say is what I know of my own culture. No point in feeding a lion unless you need the lion to be strong for you.

12th July 2006, 05:04 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes, I agree, a waste of time to feed any lion. A lion can seek his own food. But a bajing? A bajing needs to dart here and there in search of food, and when we wish to catch him in the trap we usually allow him to eat for a few days first. In respect of Javanese culture, perhaps we should draw a distinction between the culture of the courts and the culture of the people.

12th July 2006, 06:50 AM	#7
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	My first point was that it was an animistic cultural, from which there are many culture hold-overs even to this day. Sorry but I do not understand what you mean. In many parts of Indonesia there are still tribal culture. Do you mean Java was tribal before Islam? Your response to Bill was that Jawa was not animistic before Islam. Yes, Java was not animist before Islam. That is true. It was a high culture of Hindu and Buddhist. If you give incense to a keris you can give it life again. The same is for topeng barong. We believe that if you feed keris, and then stop it can turn on you or bring bad luck.

12th July 2006, 09:15 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Pak Mudi, I most sincerely regret that I must differ from you in your opinion that Jawa was not home to an animist culture prior to the establishment of Islam. In fact, in many respects, and in many places, Jawa is still an animist culture. Although Indonesia is the world`s most populous Islamic nation, the truth is that only a very small percentage of people in Indonesia are devout Muslims, and only about 6,5% could be regarded as Islamic conservatives. The vast majority of people in Jawa, particularly, are Muslim KTP. Abangan. When the nation of Indonesia was established one of the principles of its foundation was religious freedom. All were entitled to follow the religion of their choice. Regretably, the act of choice was compulsory.You could be any religion that you wished, but you could not be of no religion. The result was that a very large number of people who could not have been considered Muslim by any stretch of the imagination, opted to be identified as Muslim. The flowon from this was that Jawa in particular has developed a form of Islam that would not be recognised as Islam in many other Islamic countries.In fact, once away from the major cities, it would be difficult not to categorise this rural form of Javanese Islam as Islamic-Animism, which of course is something of an oxymoron, but then, Jawa itself is a place of many contradictions. Animism may be briefly defined as:- A belief that individual spirits inhabit objects , that spirits are separable from physical bodies, and that a spiritual force permeates the universe. This belief is active in many parts of Jawa today, and it most certainly did exist in combination with the form of the Hindu faith practiced by the court in Majapahit. The ordinary people of Jawa have never wholeheartedly followed the religion practiced by the courts of Jawa, whatever that religion may have been at any point in time. The courts in turn have adapted their practice of the Hindu faith, or Islam, to accomodate the beliefs of the ordinary people. Yes, certainly, the court culture of the Majapahit Kingdom can be regarded as high culture by any standard, but the further any place in Jawa was from the influence of the court, the more there was likely to be a domination of the belief system of the inhabitants of that place by traditional animist beliefs and ancestor worship. It should be noted that animist beliefs are not necessarily exclusive of other religious beliefs. For instance , the Toraja who I am certain you, Pak Mudi, would be very familiar with, practice a unique form of Christian-Animism. I find it very interesting that you, Pak Mudi, tell us that if we feed a keris we can give it life, and that if we fail to continue to feed it, the keris could turn on us bring misfortune. I put it to you that no keris is ever going to be capable of turning on anybody and bringing that person misfortune, or for that matter, good fortune.A keris is simply a physical object made of metal, by a man. Can a man create life? Of course not! Only God can create life, so how can something made by man develop any life of its own? However, perhaps an object made by man can become a vessel for a spiritual force. If this spiritual force enters the keris, it is the spiritual force that may bring fortune or misfortune, not the keris itself. And any of this can only happen if the human being concerned believes that it can happen. The keris itself must be viewed separately from any spiritual force that may be believed to be within it. Now, if this is not animist belief, then what is it?