Takouba with five fullers

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Helleri

Not lighter. Fullers (when properly made) are a hammered in feature. The metal isn't going anywhere. You compress it in one place; It swells out in another. That swelling can actually be seen in this piece to great effect. Notice the angle change as soon as the fuller stops. There is as much metal before fullering as there is immediately after.

It's not that they would have had to use more metal if not fullering either to get the same effect. Again there's differential heat treatment and tempering. to be clear tempering is hardening and heat treatment is softening. One usually heat treats/anneals a blade to work it, then tempers to harden it back up when work is completely. The amount of flexibility is determined by the temperature at which it is cooled from and the rate of cooling.

Now differential tempering and heat treatment is when the blade smith mentally divides the blade into quadrants. They carefully control the handling of each quadrant so that the blade has different properties of flexibility vs. hardness throughout it. Two quadrants is the easiest degree to do this to. You can temper up the whole blade. Then bring the upper quadrant back down a bit to make it more flexible without effecting the lower quadrant.

You can achieve this without fullering. So you don't need to have more metal to start with if you don't fuller. But it's just easier to fuller. Because if you give one part of the blade a lot more surface area than another. Then these quadrants are more physical than just lines you draw in your head about where you want the properties to change. Because an area of metal with a lot more surface area than another is going to respond differently to the same amount of heat and quench applied uniformly.

Fullering before tempering if done right should make it so that differential tempering and heat treatment isn't necessary. But even if you do it differentially anyway the fullering makes that easier to do without messing up. Because you really only get one or two shots at it when factoring in metal fatigue. Push it much further and you'll get cracks. So it's important to get it right.

It can be hard to imagine if you haven't done it or seen it done up close. It looks like they took metal way to make those grooves. But they really didn't. The metal just got moved around.

Hi Helleri
I can imagine what you write. I am/was a blacksmith, not a bladesmith but rather architectural, banisters etc in baroque, art nouveau, art deco.
Over the years I did make a number of swords and knives as trials, especially for my son who loved knights and swords as a child.
You are right about fullers, traditionally they are forged or made with a drawknife. In the case of forged fullers indeed no material is taken away but driven to the side, as seen on the takouba I posted here.That I did not mention such a thing is probably because I take it for granted and think everyone sees it, a little too casual of me.
Once I made a sword as a test out of a leaf spring from my triumph spitfire, double edge and not hardened or any heat treatment. Together with a friend we indulged ourselves on a few large logs. The blade did not deform and the cutting edge passed the test. Under impact you could feel and see the blade flex.
About the less weight of fullers in a blade I partially agree regarding narrow, short fullers. There and against a wide fuller running from handle to tip does contribute to lower weight. I also mean that the use of fullers and ribs allows for a thinner blade. In my collection of Congolese weapons, there are many blades that are quite thin but all have fullers and ribs. However, I have yet to read any record anywhere that states that the African blacksmith applied the steel hardening process.Since the finishing of the blades was done in almost cold condition I assume that they removed the stress thus hammered into the steel by heating them slightly.
If anyone knows of such a report please let me know.

Best regards
marc

[Changdao]

Originally Posted by Marc M.

Hi Helleri
I can imagine what you write. I am/was a blacksmith, not a bladesmith but rather architectural, banisters etc in baroque, art nouveau, art deco.
Over the years I did make a number of swords and knives as trials, especially for my son who loved knights and swords as a child.
You are right about fullers, traditionally they are forged or made with a drawknife. In the case of forged fullers indeed no material is taken away but driven to the side, as seen on the takouba I posted here.That I did not mention such a thing is probably because I take it for granted and think everyone sees it, a little too casual of me.
Once I made a sword as a test out of a leaf spring from my triumph spitfire, double edge and not hardened or any heat treatment. Together with a friend we indulged ourselves on a few large logs. The blade did not deform and the cutting edge passed the test. Under impact you could feel and see the blade flex.
About the less weight of fullers in a blade I partially agree regarding narrow, short fullers. There and against a wide fuller running from handle to tip does contribute to lower weight. I also mean that the use of fullers and ribs allows for a thinner blade. In my collection of Congolese weapons, there are many blades that are quite thin but all have fullers and ribs. However, I have yet to read any record anywhere that states that the African blacksmith applied the steel hardening process.Since the finishing of the blades was done in almost cold condition I assume that they removed the stress thus hammered into the steel by heating them slightly.
If anyone knows of such a report please let me know.

Best regards
marc

I believe that in Schweinfurth's writings about his experiences in Central Africa there are some excerpts about forging, but I'm not sure how detailed they are.