Gills Britah manufacturing sword

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by toaster5sqn

Auckland War Memorial Museum has an 1751 pattern British infantry hanger with a Gill blade. As with the OP's sword this hilt predates the blade, by the time Gill was making blades the use of infantry hangers was finished or all but.

Hi Robert, thanks for sharing this sword; very pertenant to the discussion. From memory the blade was marked I. Gill, which was how John Gill marked blades of his production (I the latin equlivent for J).

When Thomas Gill Snr died in 1801, the business was taken up by his three sons, Thomas Jnr, James and John. They operated in partnership until March 1802 when it was disolved. At this time the business continued to sell swords but it is not known if they produced new blades or simply sold pre-existing ones made under Thomas Snr.

Below is an example of one such blade, and to my eye it looks like the original makers name has been over stamped:



Of the three brothers; while they all intermittently sold swords, only John continued to produce sword blades until his death in February 1817, marking his blades I.Gill. This helps dates the production of that blade to between 1802 and 1816.

[Bryce]

G'day Phil,
I have seen a 1788 pattern heavy cavalry officer's sword marked to Gill with exactly the same format as yours. On the ricasso is marked "GILL'S British Manufacture". Along the blade spine is marked "WARRANTED NEVER TO FAIL 1792".
I guess this dates your blade to around the same time. The question is, has the blade been added to an older hilt? What does the peen look like? I am not very familiar with that style of hilt, apart from knowing it predates the 1788 patterns.

On the subject of the "G" stamp, just to reinforce what has already been said, this mark was used by Osborn and then Osborn and Gunby on their officers' sword blades. It was never used by Gill.

Cheers,
Bryce

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Bryce

On the subject of the "G" stamp, just to reinforce what has already been said, this mark was used by Osborn and then Osborn and Gunby on their officers' sword blades. It was never used by Gill.

Cheers,
Bryce

Thank you for joining in Bryce.

Other than the stamps already mentioned (Crown over HO, G and GG for Osborn and the rare S for Dawes) are you aware of any other makers using similar markings?

[Bryce]

G'day Radboud,
I have also seen swords of a similar vintage to the Crown over HO marked Osborns, that have a Crown over TG mark. Maybe this was used by Thomas Gill, but I haven't yet found one with a corresponding Gill mark to confirm this.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Jim McDougall]

In accord with the case with earlier hilts paired with later blades, this is a c1750 munitions grade British basket hilt of the form produced by Jeffries and Drury in London. These were known to be used by the Black Watch as well as several other infantry units.
At the end of the American Revolution the carrying of swords by infantry units effectively ended, with numbers of these swords of course being put into stores. At some point it appears several of these were paired with M1788 light cavalry saber blade......by whom or for whom is unclear.

I recall many years ago in my quest for the presumed M1788 heavy cavalry sword, which of course had the straight single edged dragoon type blade (despite the light cavalry moving to the hussar type saber).......I found an example of the claimed hilt form...basket type hilt. However, this had a heavy, curved saber blade.
Soon I decided this, with curved blade, did not seem quite proper for the example I needed (as per Robson, it was about 1977) so I let it go.

These are examples of hilts paired incongruently with other blades, and in particular the c. 1750s hilt mounted with 1788 light cavalry saber blade.

It would seem of course that these kinds of pairings might have to do with yeomanry units perhaps, or traditionally held hilts given newer blades.
Whatever the case, it does not seem an altogether unusual instance.

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Radboud,
I have also seen swords of a similar vintage to the Crown over HO marked Osborns, that have a Crown over TG mark. Maybe this was used by Thomas Gill, but I haven't yet found one with a corresponding Gill mark to confirm this.
Cheers,
Bryce

You've probably seen mine, a few owners down the road.

[Bryce]

Yeah that is one of them. You haven't noticed a GILL mark anywhere on it have you? It may be marked GILL on the tang like the early Osborn examples.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by Bryce

Yeah that is one of them. You haven't noticed a GILL mark anywhere on it have you? It may be marked GILL on the tang like the early Osborn examples.
Cheers,
Bryce

I've never taken it apart. I had seen it decades ago. I grabbed it from ebay and the seller got it from a previous auction. bought it for the form, over the marking.

Cheers
GC