Maximum size of kris?

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by kai

Actually, that's a myth. It's true that the .38 usually didn't have enough stopping power to deal with juramentado attacks. But the limited stopping power (in different combat situations) was already well known before the Spanish-American war and I recall that the switch to the .45 had been already decided, too.

An "old salt Light Colonel" in the Marines once told me that the (M1911 ACP) 45 was developed (and put into service) due to the ineffective stopping power of the 38 revolver during the Philippines conflict. I do not believe it was a myth.

Originally Posted by kronckew

it's why the army dropped their 'economic' .38 cal. pistols in favor of the .45. the moro's are muslim's and are very bellicose and independant (the bean counters issued the US with .38's again before Iraq, and again they're finding it inadequate against muslim insurectionists & alot use old .45s when they are allowed - those who forget history are forced to relive it).

Actually, the 9mm (Beretta 92F, or "M9") replaced the good ole 45... and not without some grumbling in the ranks.

[Spunjer]

... a continuation of what BSMStar was saying (more of a full circle):

Actually, the 9mm (Beretta 92F, or "M9") replaced the good ole 45... and not without some grumbling in the ranks.

and at the same time backing up what mabagani states in regards to the development of M1911:


a recent excerpt from the latest edition of American Rifleman magazine,
NRA's 'Official Journal' (July 2006). the article was written by Wiley
Clapp, field editor.


Back To the Future? U.S. Military .45s, pp.36-37

"We have come to understand the flawed logic of selecting a
high-capacity 9mm pistol, simply because it holds lots of shots. Even the .40
S&W compromise, which gives us fewer shots and bigger bullets than the
9mm, has not always worked well as it should. The best solution to the
problem would seem to be the one adopted in 1911 - a .45 ACP handgun.

Any student of firearm history is aware of the fact that we have been
through this before and for exactly the same reasons. We once change
from a single-action .45 Colt revolver of adequate power to a .38 Long
Colt revolver of inadequate power, just because the latter was lighter,
more modern double-action design.

When the .38 Long Colt faced a determined enemy in the Philippines,
it didn't performed well, and we ended up rushing the older .45 Colt
guns out of arsenal storage and into the hands of the troops. Then, a
program of development was initiated that resulted in the best service
pistol and service pistol cartridge in the history of arms. The M1911 Colt
in .45 ACP served us well in two world wars, Korea, Vietnam and other
conflicts throughout the troubled 20th century."

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Actually, the 9mm (Beretta 92F, or "M9") replaced the good ole 45... and not without some grumbling in the ranks.

9mm is a .38 (well, actually a .38 is really a .357 and a 9mm converts to .355 in, but a lot of 9mm's have .357 barrels & they are basically & technically the same) the beretta is obviously not a .38 revolver, but i'm sure the bean counters would have supplied them if they could have done it cheaper or if they had stocks of them left over from the 19th c. designs change, bean counters are forever.

(i am prejudiced because the few times i went armed for real i used a .45 govt. model, and got my expert pistol medal with one...)

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by kronckew

9mm is a .38 (well, actually a .38 is really a .357 and a 9mm converts to .355 in, but a lot of 9mm's have .357 barrels & they are basically & technically the same) the beretta is obviously not a .38 revolver, but ...)

Sorry to disagree, but the 9mm Parabellum (for war) was introduced in 1902 by the Germans with the well prized "Luger," and I would not try to chamber a .38 in a 9mm weapon. LOL.

I would love to debate the differences but I do not wish to hijack this thread.

[kronckew]

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. some dead horses like beating also. the thread has been hijacked already by picking up and disagreeing with what was meant to be a marginal aside on my original discussion of the 'terminal ballistics' of moro edged weapons against US troops. i offer the following to try to terminate this discussion as i do not want anyone left with incomplete facts.

those who have been a gun nut or been involved in hand loading & Terminal Ballistics (linky) will see my point. if i'd a said 9mm parabellum cartridge and/or .38 long colt, .38 special, etc. you might have a leg to stand on, but talking about bullet diameter there is no practical difference and they are in the same family, and the effect on a target especially will be very closely the same given the same construction, velocity and bullet weight. the 9mm is classed as a .38 caliber weapon, 9mm is just the european measurement for what is called a .38 in the US (actually .36, but called .38 for reasons not germain) the .002 inch difference in diameter only matters to handloaders, again, some 9mm weapons actually have .357 bores & may be more accurate with .357 hand loads in their 9mm parabellum cases. i won't get into mfg. tolerances, wear, rifling differences and their effects on bore dia. either. the above linky on terminal ballistics has more info than can be adequately covered here for anyone who wants to continue..

so, anyone who is chambering a 9mm parabellum cartridge IS effectively chambering a .38 caliber bullet.

[Mudi]

This is our longest keris. It is 148 cm long to end of peksi. It has 21 luk. Most luk we have seen in old keris. The blade weighs 1.5 kilo and it has a very nice belalai gajah and good pamor. We think this keris from east Java maybe Madura. This keris just for ceremony. This keris I gave my son when 21 who holds it now for you.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...aduraBagus.jpg



This keris next was belong by Pak Ida Bagus Dibia in Bali. It is from Madura and about 150 cm long.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...isPakDibia.jpg

[Alam Shah]

Wow! Keris used by giants...

Mudi, are you the one holding the 1st keris?

The 2nd keris, the one holding it,
Isn't that the author of Keris Bali/Balinese Keris?

Interesting...

[Mudi]

Holding first keris is my son Jonny. He is 27. I am 58. Yes, Pak Dibia wrote the book Keris Bali. I knew him in Denpasar some years ago, but I think he is dead now, or someone told me. He was Ida Bagus or high caste.