Side sword with unusually wrought hilt

shayde78 · 1st February 2024, 03:05 AM

As always, thank you, Jim, for being so generous with your feedback.

I found some examples of hilts that share some elements with the sword in question. All of these are from the collection at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

The ballock dagger is thought to be Western European/British from c1450-1500

The pommel is listed as British c.1630

The transitional rapier is listed as Brescan c. 1650

As Jim said, these might have served as a pallet to inspire a later creation. I'm still perplexed at the amount of work someone put into this if merely meant as a wall-hanger. But, it worked to separate me from my money, so...mission accomplished?

shayde78 · 17th February 2024, 11:20 PM

Example from mid-1700s?

shayde78 · 21st February 2024, 12:00 PM

A few more examples

Hotspur · 21st February 2024, 03:43 PM

Maybe

The Green Man

Blattemaske

Der Guener Mensch

The metal work (if genuinely old) would be no earlier than 17th century.

Some early cast stuff

shayde78 · 4th April 2024, 02:00 AM

Thanks for weighing in, Hotspur

I guess the consensus is that this is nothing special. I knew it was a long shot, but thought I lucked out with this one.

As always, thanks to those that provided feedback

Raf · 20th June 2024, 07:19 PM

Just stumbled across this one . Described as late seventeenth century Spanish. One of only three known examples . Do we believe this ?

Raf · 21st June 2024, 11:06 AM

The give away is of course that it is for all practical purposes identical . Something that would be impossible achieved by hand forging and chiseling. It has to have been fabricated by casting, probably using the lost wax process. Having said that it is a quality thing not easy or cheap to produce. Seventeenth century it isn't so it has to be a nineteenth historical revival fantasy. Deserves to be appreciated in its own right as part of the history arms and armour collecting.

1st February 2024, 03:05 AM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	As always, thank you, Jim, for being so generous with your feedback. I found some examples of hilts that share some elements with the sword in question. All of these are from the collection at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. The ballock dagger is thought to be Western European/British from c1450-1500 The pommel is listed as British c.1630 The transitional rapier is listed as Brescan c. 1650 As Jim said, these might have served as a pallet to inspire a later creation. I'm still perplexed at the amount of work someone put into this if merely meant as a wall-hanger. But, it worked to separate me from my money, so...mission accomplished? Attached Images

17th February 2024, 11:20 PM	#2
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Example from mid-1700s? Attached Images

21st February 2024, 12:00 PM	#3
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	A few more examples Attached Images

21st February 2024, 03:43 PM	#4
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	Maybe The Green Man Blattemaske Der Guener Mensch The metal work (if genuinely old) would be no earlier than 17th century. Some early cast stuff Attached Images

20th June 2024, 07:19 PM	#6
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Just stumbled across this one . Described as late seventeenth century Spanish. One of only three known examples . Do we believe this ? Attached Images

4th April 2024, 02:00 AM	#5
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thanks for weighing in, Hotspur I guess the consensus is that this is nothing special. I knew it was a long shot, but thought I lucked out with this one. As always, thanks to those that provided feedback

21st June 2024, 11:06 AM	#7
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	The give away is of course that it is for all practical purposes identical . Something that would be impossible achieved by hand forging and chiseling. It has to have been fabricated by casting, probably using the lost wax process. Having said that it is a quality thing not easy or cheap to produce. Seventeenth century it isn't so it has to be a nineteenth historical revival fantasy. Deserves to be appreciated in its own right as part of the history arms and armour collecting.