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#1 | |
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But if they are from Madura or East Java, who will be sure about this? ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#2 |
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Looks like somebody else has seen the little knobs, even if I have not, so that is probably good enough to hang "Madura" on it.
But we should remember that even though some information appears in a number of sources, all those sources might come back to the same root, & that root can be incorrect or misunderstood. As for who can be certain about any identification of anything --- & I'm not only thinking weapons & tools here --- I would say nobody can be, the name of something can change from one side of the street to the other. That's the case in Jawa, it seems less so in Bali, but my knowledge of Bali is not as strong as my knowledge of Jawa. As for other places throughout the Archipelago, I lack the necessary experience to form too many definite opinions at all. |
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#3 |
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I just got the information from a helpful Madurese man that what I called Arit Bendo is some sort of a Pelong. It's the Madurese term.
The Celurit is called in Madura Arek or Sadek. Regards, Detlef |
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#4 |
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Perhaps in this Madurese gentleman's part of Madura, Detlef, might be so.
However, the word "celurit" is in fact Madurese, and the Madurese language is one of the East Javanese dialects. The word "pelong" in East Javanese generally is, I believe a descriptor, & applied to a thing, model or pattern it means big or wide. |
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#5 |
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Someone hint me to this page: https://nizarazof.wordpress.com/2017...s-from-madura/
Look also here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celurit |
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#6 |
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I do have pretty strong family connections with Madura, but none of these people are the least bit interested in any sort of weaponry, they are more interested in making money.
Yes, once we get into rural parts of Madura it is common to see people, mostly farmers & other rural workers, walking around with an arit or celurit dangling from their hand --- just the same as Javanese farmers do. The handles of those arits & celurits are usually just plain, unadorned wood, no brass studs, no coloured twine binding. Sometimes they stick them into their belt at the back. The tool type arits come in various sizes & can be used for light garden trimming to splitting firewood. During the troubles that were taking place in the mid-1960's, the Madurese in both Madura itself & in other parts of East Jawa were well known to line up the people whom they wish to rid themselves of and cut their throats from behind with a celurit. Here is a good outline of what was happening then:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indone...965%E2%80%9366 I was there in 1966, travelled across Jawa from Jakarta to Bali & back by bus, I did not see nor experience any of what was being reported as happening. I remember that I read about bodies floating down rivers and being fished out by local entrepreneurs who were looking for gold teeth to remove, I did see a few bodies on town rubbish dumps, but I saw this in Jawa Tengah a few times during the 1980's & '90's also. Generally speaking, in the areas of East Jawa where there is a high proportion of Madurese people living, the Javanese & other ethnic groups tend to do their best to stay well clear of Madurese, they have a reputation for quick tempers & immediate & brutal response to perceived disrespect. During the 1980's & 1990's I visited Sumenep & several other parts of Madura quite frequently, personally, I found Madurese people to be very hospitable, and I remember thinking back then that they were very similar to rural Australians in respect of their behaviour & values. I was quite comfortable with them, they acted & spoke in a very straightforward manner. The very best coffee I have ever tasted was served to me by a Madurese gentleman who lived in Sumenep. |
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#7 | |||
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Yes, I know that still today farmers walk around with a celurit in hand or on their belt at the back. And yes, the handles are just plain wood, different from the look like the examples shown here. Quote:
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And yes, Madurese people are feared by other population groups because of the behavior you described. And like you I only have very positive experiences with them. Best regards, Detlef |
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