Betel pestles and their handles

[Sajen]

It may be of interest to some, I would like to show you two Betel pestles and two handles for such pestles. Other members may also have such pieces to show.

[Sajen]

And here the two handles.

[Sajen]

Over 200 views and not one single comment?
No other betel pestels or their handles in other collections?

[thomas hauschild]

For your pleasure

The „scabbard“ is very heavy, mybe made from a gunbarrel.

Best Thomas

[JeffS]

Those are fun. Where are they from?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by thomas hauschild

For your pleasure

The „scabbard“ is very heavy, mybe made from a gunbarrel.

Hello Thomas,

A real beauty! Thank you for posting it!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Those are fun. Where are they from?

I think they are all from Lombok, possible Bali.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Two modest new members entered the collection.
Both have wooden handles and show the most common motives, a man riding another man (I read somewhere that it's an ironic symbol for upper and lower population) and a bird, sometimes seen with a snake.

[Sajen]

BTW, these pestles are called "plococan".

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Sajen

BTW, these pestles are called "plococan".

Sorry, correct spelling is "plocokan"!

[Athanase]

My small collection of Plocokan from Bali and Lombok (I'm discovering the word, thanks Detlef).

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, in what language, or perhaps dialect is the name of these implements "plocokan" ?

This is not a confrontational question, it is request for clarification.

Thank you.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Detlef, in what language, or perhaps dialect is the name of these implements "plocokan" ?

This is not a confrontational question, it is request for clarification.

Thank you.

Hello Alan,

I know these betel pestels only under this name but frankly I am unsuspecting which language this is! Sorry.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Athanase

My small collection of Plocokan from Bali and Lombok (I'm discovering the word, thanks Detlef).

What a great collection of these! Wow!

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you for your prompt response , Detlef.

Here is the back story.

Many years ago, I was told by a Balinese friend that the name for these things was "pelecok".

A well informed Australian tribal arts dealer of Scots descent also used to refer to these little tools by the same name.

I have not been able to confirm this name in recent years with anybody whom I know in Bali.

However, in Javanese we have two words that can provide a root for "pelecok", these two words are "lecok", which as a verb becomes "nglecok" and means to crush or to grind finely to enable chewing, the second word is "locok", which as a verb becomes "nglocok", and with the same meaning, so not really two different words, but the same word with a variant pronunciation, possibly one pronunciation in Central Jawa, a variant pronunciation in East Jawa.

When we use the prefix "pe", that root of "lecok/locok" becomes a noun:- "pelecok".

It seems to me that the word you know, "plocokan", is from the same root.

The use of the suffix "an" in Malay languages creates a noun from a verb and indicates both the result and the tool used to create the result.

So " locok" becomes a noun:- "locokan", or "plocokan" , the missing "e" is common in both spelling and pronunciation in Malay languages, thus we can also write the word as "pelocokan" the sound would be the same to a foreign ear, eg:- "kris", "keris".

The use of the prefix "pe" in Malay languages creates a noun from a verb and/or an action or instrument of an action.

And that was the reason I asked my question. It would have been nice to able to identify the form you know with a definite source.

[Sajen]

It could be that I picked up the term in an art book but I can't remember where but an art dealer I know well and situated in Bali uses the same term.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Maybe he picked it up in the same place.

However, the point of my interest is this:-

in probably all languages there is wide variation in the rendition of the words used to convey an idea, words that appear to be different might not be so different after all, and when we come to the transfer of a word written in one script to the way in which it is written in another quite different script we encounter all sorts of problems, so it is perhaps advisable when dealing with the "correct" & "incorrect" names for all sorts of things to remember that "correctness" can only ever apply to a certain window of time in a specific location. The same caution can also apply to the vocal rendition of a word when that word is used by people from differing locations & times.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Maybe he picked it up in the same place.

However, the point of my interest is this:-

in probably all languages there is wide variation in the rendition of the words used to convey an idea, words that appear to be different might not be so different after all, and when we come to the transfer of a word written in one script to the way in which it is written in another quite different script we encounter all sorts of problems, so it is perhaps advisable when dealing with the "correct" & "incorrect" names for all sorts of things to remember that "correctness" can only ever apply to a certain window of time in a specific location. The same caution can also apply to the vocal rendition of a word when that word is used by people from differing locations & times.

Agree complete with you!