Later-era saber kris for comment

[Rick]

I have a kris with decoration like this; I'd love to know what decade these embellishments became popular and whether they were used within the culture or just for the souvenir trade.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Rick

I have a kris with decoration like this; I'd love to know what decade these embellishments became popular and whether they were used within the culture or just for the souvenir trade.

Same thoughts sir! I'll try backtracking on similarly-engraved items on Worthpoint...hopefully one of those would have provenance.

[Ian]

i also have a regular kris blade with the same decoration and without a hilt. I had a panabas blade also with this decoration, and I think I've seen a Moro spear head also with the same style of incised decoration.

I agree with David, probably mid-20th C (1950s, 1960s).

The metal from which my kris is constructed is a light color and appeared "soft" from the manner in which it had been incised. That made me wonder whether it was aluminum or an alloy.

The okir on mine reminds me of Maranao work.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Ian

i also have a regular kris blade with the same decoration and without a hilt. I had a panabas blade also with this decoration, and I think I've seen a Moro spear head also with the same style of incised decoration.

I agree with David, probably mid-20th C (1950s, 1960s).

The metal from which my kris is constructed is a light color and appeared "soft" from the manner in which it had been incised. That made me wonder whether it was aluminum or an alloy.

The okir on mine reminds me of Maranao work.

Thanks for this data Ian! I agree that the origin of such engraved blades is likely a Maranao or Maguindanao area. Mine is also "soft" but retains an edge pretty well; when I etched it, it turned dark all over, so I was guessing it was at least mono-hardened.

[drac2k]

This question often comes up and while I can not comment on your blade, this style of engraving has been around since at least prior to 1926(see enclosed "Krieger 1926 Philippine Ethnic Weapons Plate 7.png). I have seen pictures of similarly engraved captured weapons by General Pershing from the Smithsonian, so I'm guessing this mode of design could go back to the early 1900's or before.

[David]

Originally Posted by drac2k

This question often comes up and while I can not comment on your blade, this style of engraving has been around since at least prior to 1926(see enclosed "Krieger 1926 Philippine Ethnic Weapons Plate 7.png). I have seen pictures of similarly engraved captured weapons by General Pershing from the Smithsonian, so I'm guessing this mode of design could go back to the early 1900's or before.

I don't think there is any question of Moro blades being engraved on the blades dating back to the early 1900s, but i am afraid that the illustration you have presented does not really show well enough if it is done in the same style. But we have to look at more than just similar motifs, since okir patterns are traditional and are used over long periods of time. We need to look at execution and think about what tools might have made the engraving. To my eye the engravings on this keris look machine made rather than hand incised. And there is not separate gangya, which also hints put at a particular timeline, even though there were some old exceptions to that rule. I still feel comfortable dating this to the 1950s-60s.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by David

I don't think there is any question of Moro blades being engraved on the blades dating back to the early 1900s, but i am afraid that the illustration you have presented does not really show well enough if it is done in the same style. But we have to look at more than just similar motifs, since okir patterns are traditional and are used over long periods of time. We need to look at execution and think about what tools might have made the engraving. To my eye the engravings on this keris look machine made rather than hand incised. And there is not separate gangya, which also hints put at a particular timeline, even though there were some old exceptions to that rule. I still feel comfortable dating this to the 1950s-60s.

I think drac2k has an engraved panabas sample corresponding (or rather close to) the Krieger plate here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20194

Looking at it closely...the engraving reminds me of my kris. Hmmm.

To my current knowledge, the Maranao people only started using machines for any blade-related operations post-1980s already.