Spike Tomahawks

BBJW · 20th July 2023, 08:08 PM

Many 'spike' tomahawks are were used on sailing ships. The spike being used to pull away downed rigging.-- bbjw

M ELEY · 20th July 2023, 09:41 PM

I just wrote a long and convoluted response to this and it vanished before my eyes, so here's the short of it...

Despite the bondo, it doesn't mean this is a fake. The axe appears hand-forged, perhaps early 19th. Seems too early for mining or trench axe, not practical as a tool axe. The 'eye' is of the early pattern oval and slightly thinner on one side, indicating hand-wrought. The spike like this one found on some known native specimens (Iroquois for one). The hafts on both these axes replaced, but this is common and expected. The head pattern is post 1800 and does fall into the shape of later tool axes, but very few of those were blacksmith made. The squared slot on yours very possibly a beaver trap chain pull to prevent having to plunge one's arm into icy rivers again and again (and possibly getting bit by a muskrat or beaver).

Check out the following-
Hartzler's 'Trade Axes and Tomawks'
Neumann's 'Swords and Blades of the American Revolution'
the Tatca website- https://tatcalite.tripod.com/index.htm

As I stated earlier, there are a lot of fakes, so an expert would need to actually handle your 'hawks' to be sure. Check out the trade tomahawl site's list of mimics and fakes. It's enough to scare you away from collecting these!

mgolab · 20th July 2023, 10:29 PM

Thanks again for the detailed and informative response.

Iroquois Confederacy/Six Nations would make sense based on the geographic location found. Specifically, Seneca.

What is your thought on the age of the half for the small ax with long spike? I find it interesting that it is white ash. Clearly a replacement but my thought is that bears some age.

Thanks again

M ELEY · 20th July 2023, 10:43 PM

One of my recent threads with my few examples-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26553

mgolab · 21st July 2023, 01:15 PM

Yes, the website and materials are informative. I own swords and blades of the american revolution.

I have seen your prior posts and was hoping that you would provide comment/feedback! Very informative as well. Your spike tomahawk is similar.

Any thoughts on the the haft? I know it is a replacement but seems like it has some age to it.

Thanks again

M ELEY · 22nd July 2023, 04:03 AM

Sorry. I missed your response earlier. On the haft on my example, I feel that it is fairly contemporary or at least an early replacement. I confess I've studied the heads of these axes for a while, but know very little on the particular woods used for the hafts. For instance, I was convinced a pike I own had a shaft of wormy ash based on the tiny larva holes...until I learned that there is also wormy oak, wormy elm, etc. Dope! That being said, your haft does seem to reflect some age, perhaps replaced around the turn of the last century. I've read that soem of these axes were taken by Native Americans serving in WWI to act as trench axes, so hafts were sometimes replaced specifically for that period.

mgolab · 23rd July 2023, 01:58 AM

Thank you again M Eley for your very informative response.

Another one of my axes has been intriguing me...I have posted pics. This axe is clearly in the halberd form, 15 inches overall and 7 inches from blade to hook. It is nickel plated but appears forged sheet iron underneath, 1/8 inch thick. Very similar in dimensions, form and sheet metal to one on the trade axe and tomahawk collector's association website, page one.

Clearly marked Order of Red Men, June 1910. However, when I contacted the improved order of red men museum, I was told that the origin of the axe was a mystery to them and not an official order of red men piece.

I wonder if this is an older piece later used by the order of red men in 1910...

Thanks for any comments

David · 23rd July 2023, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgolab

Thank you again M Eley for your very informative response.

Another one of my axes has been intriguing me...I have posted pics. This axe is clearly in the halberd form, 15 inches overall and 7 inches from blade to hook. It is nickel plated but appears forged sheet iron underneath, 1/8 inch thick. Very similar in dimensions, form and sheet metal to one on the trade axe and tomahawk collector's association website, page one.

Clearly marked Order of Red Men, June 1910. However, when I contacted the improved order of red men museum, I was told that the origin of the axe was a mystery to them and not an official order of red men piece.

I wonder if this is an older piece later used by the order of red men in 1910...

Thanks for any comments

Mgolab, we recently discussed this ceremonial axe in the Miscellaneous Forum. I doubt you will get more info on it in this thread. This axe is in no way related to the practical examples that you started this thread with. And since you have been to the actual authorities on these Red Men artifacts i doubt you find any further info on this on this thread.
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28959

mgolab · 23rd July 2023, 02:33 AM

Also, I wanted to add re: the halberd ax that I just posted:

the IORM museum also indicated that most of their official pieces were cast,with lettering. In some instances, the lodges would acquire older pieces where the lettering was stamped into the ax, such as this one which I own.

My ax comes from the Harrisburg, PA area.

Thanks again

20th July 2023, 09:41 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I just wrote a long and convoluted response to this and it vanished before my eyes, so here's the short of it... Despite the bondo, it doesn't mean this is a fake. The axe appears hand-forged, perhaps early 19th. Seems too early for mining or trench axe, not practical as a tool axe. The 'eye' is of the early pattern oval and slightly thinner on one side, indicating hand-wrought. The spike like this one found on some known native specimens (Iroquois for one). The hafts on both these axes replaced, but this is common and expected. The head pattern is post 1800 and does fall into the shape of later tool axes, but very few of those were blacksmith made. The squared slot on yours very possibly a beaver trap chain pull to prevent having to plunge one's arm into icy rivers again and again (and possibly getting bit by a muskrat or beaver). Check out the following- Hartzler's 'Trade Axes and Tomawks' Neumann's 'Swords and Blades of the American Revolution' the Tatca website- https://tatcalite.tripod.com/index.htm As I stated earlier, there are a lot of fakes, so an expert would need to actually handle your 'hawks' to be sure. Check out the trade tomahawl site's list of mimics and fakes. It's enough to scare you away from collecting these! Last edited by M ELEY; 20th July 2023 at 10:40 PM.

23rd July 2023, 01:58 AM	#7
mgolab Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 52	Thank you again M Eley for your very informative response. Another one of my axes has been intriguing me...I have posted pics. This axe is clearly in the halberd form, 15 inches overall and 7 inches from blade to hook. It is nickel plated but appears forged sheet iron underneath, 1/8 inch thick. Very similar in dimensions, form and sheet metal to one on the trade axe and tomahawk collector's association website, page one. Clearly marked Order of Red Men, June 1910. However, when I contacted the improved order of red men museum, I was told that the origin of the axe was a mystery to them and not an official order of red men piece. I wonder if this is an older piece later used by the order of red men in 1910... Thanks for any comments Attached Images

20th July 2023, 08:08 PM	#1
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 228	Many 'spike' tomahawks are were used on sailing ships. The spike being used to pull away downed rigging.-- bbjw

20th July 2023, 10:29 PM	#3
mgolab Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 52	Thanks again for the detailed and informative response. Iroquois Confederacy/Six Nations would make sense based on the geographic location found. Specifically, Seneca. What is your thought on the age of the half for the small ax with long spike? I find it interesting that it is white ash. Clearly a replacement but my thought is that bears some age. Thanks again

20th July 2023, 10:43 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	One of my recent threads with my few examples- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26553

21st July 2023, 01:15 PM	#5
mgolab Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 52	Yes, the website and materials are informative. I own swords and blades of the american revolution. I have seen your prior posts and was hoping that you would provide comment/feedback! Very informative as well. Your spike tomahawk is similar. Any thoughts on the the haft? I know it is a replacement but seems like it has some age to it. Thanks again

22nd July 2023, 04:03 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Sorry. I missed your response earlier. On the haft on my example, I feel that it is fairly contemporary or at least an early replacement. I confess I've studied the heads of these axes for a while, but know very little on the particular woods used for the hafts. For instance, I was convinced a pike I own had a shaft of wormy ash based on the tiny larva holes...until I learned that there is also wormy oak, wormy elm, etc. Dope! That being said, your haft does seem to reflect some age, perhaps replaced around the turn of the last century. I've read that soem of these axes were taken by Native Americans serving in WWI to act as trench axes, so hafts were sometimes replaced specifically for that period.

23rd July 2023, 02:33 AM	#9
mgolab Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 52	Also, I wanted to add re: the halberd ax that I just posted: the IORM museum also indicated that most of their official pieces were cast,with lettering. In some instances, the lodges would acquire older pieces where the lettering was stamped into the ax, such as this one which I own. My ax comes from the Harrisburg, PA area. Thanks again