19th century Latin American fighting knife?

M ELEY · 27th June 2023, 04:23 PM

I would wager Spanish colonial and perhaps Brazilian. The star and SS patterns I've seen on a few Brazilian sword hilts like the one I used to own. Of course, these decorations are seen with other cultures (Moroccan, Algerian), but the overall look of the piece, the 'facone'-style blade and even the squared guard are more Central/South American. My 2 cents...

wildwolberine · 28th June 2023, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I would wager Spanish colonial and perhaps Brazilian. The star and SS patterns I've seen on a few Brazilian sword hilts like the one I used to own. Of course, these decorations are seen with other cultures (Moroccan, Algerian), but the overall look of the piece, the 'facone'-style blade and even the squared guard are more Central/South American. My 2 cents...

Ok, thanks for your input! Will look into a Brazilian origin for this knife.

wildwolberine · 30th June 2023, 12:36 AM

Here’s the knife, cleaned up a bit. There’s a name on the underside of the hilt that wasn’t in the seller photos - a nice surprise! The fittings cleaned up nicely, and the wood looks better after a treatment with linseed oil.

RobT · 30th June 2023, 11:40 PM

wildwolberine,

I don't see any features on this knife or sheath that are inconsistent with the Philippines. The "squared guard" that M ELEY pointed out is not uncommonly found in Philippine daggers. I also note that the general shape and the slightly kopis edge is also commonly found on the so called "Philippine bowies". That "Del Sr" signature you show could actually be an abbreviation for Del Sur which refers to Illocos Del Sur in the Philippines which is a main manufacture site for Philippine bowies.

Sincerely,
RobT

wildwolberine · 1st July 2023, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

wildwolberine,

I don't see any features on this knife or sheath that are inconsistent with the Philippines. The "squared guard" that M ELEY pointed out is not uncommonly found in Philippine daggers. I also note that the general shape and the slightly kopis edge is also commonly found on the so called "Philippine bowies". That "Del Sr" signature you show could actually be an abbreviation for Del Sur which refers to Illocos Del Sur in the Philippines which is a main manufacture site for Philippine bowies.

Sincerely,
RobT

RobT,

Thanks for your input! I could not find a similar example on the forum, I would appreciate any links to threads. I suspect this isn’t the original blade profile, it shows a lot of sharpening. The straight spine and edge and centered vs. offset tang are distinctive. The sheath is quite simple and lacks any reinforcement or ornamentation at the throat (of course this could be missing).

Gavin Nugent · 3rd July 2023, 01:05 AM

I'd look to the Mexico and more specifically New Mexico regions for this type.
PI would "typically" have a screw on pommel nut.

RobT · 4th July 2023, 12:14 AM

Gavin Nugent,

As I wrote, I don't see any features on the knife or sheath in question that are inconsistent with the Philippines. That being said, my knowledge of Mexican knives is very limited so I will take your word for it that Mexico is also a possibility. After all, it's not unreasonable to expect knives from two former Spanish colonies to look similar. However, there is that "Del Sr." to account for. If it doesn't stand for Illocos Del Sur in the Philippines, does it stand for a southern Mexican area? I doubt that it is a personal name because "Del Sr." would just translate as "of the senior".
I must however, take issue with your statement that Philippine knives "'typically' have a screw on pommel nut". I looked over my entire collection of Philippine knives with clip point blades (over 16 items) and none of them have a screw on pommel nut. Likewise, none of my double edge Philippine daggers (6 total) have this feature. I have one short sword with a screw on nut but all the rest with a through tang, have the tang peened over a pommel nut or washer.

Sincerely,
RobT

30th June 2023, 12:36 AM	#3
wildwolberine Member Join Date: May 2023 Location: San Antonio Posts: 125	Here’s the knife, cleaned up a bit. There’s a name on the underside of the hilt that wasn’t in the seller photos - a nice surprise! The fittings cleaned up nicely, and the wood looks better after a treatment with linseed oil. Attached Images

30th June 2023, 11:40 PM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 563	Philippines? wildwolberine, I don't see any features on this knife or sheath that are inconsistent with the Philippines. The "squared guard" that M ELEY pointed out is not uncommonly found in Philippine daggers. I also note that the general shape and the slightly kopis edge is also commonly found on the so called "Philippine bowies". That "Del Sr" signature you show could actually be an abbreviation for Del Sur which refers to Illocos Del Sur in the Philippines which is a main manufacture site for Philippine bowies. Sincerely, RobT

4th July 2023, 12:14 AM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 563	Mexico Possible but Screwed Pommel Nut? Gavin Nugent, As I wrote, I don't see any features on the knife or sheath in question that are inconsistent with the Philippines. That being said, my knowledge of Mexican knives is very limited so I will take your word for it that Mexico is also a possibility. After all, it's not unreasonable to expect knives from two former Spanish colonies to look similar. However, there is that "Del Sr." to account for. If it doesn't stand for Illocos Del Sur in the Philippines, does it stand for a southern Mexican area? I doubt that it is a personal name because "Del Sr." would just translate as "of the senior". I must however, take issue with your statement that Philippine knives "'typically' have a screw on pommel nut". I looked over my entire collection of Philippine knives with clip point blades (over 16 items) and none of them have a screw on pommel nut. Likewise, none of my double edge Philippine daggers (6 total) have this feature. I have one short sword with a screw on nut but all the rest with a through tang, have the tang peened over a pommel nut or washer. Sincerely, RobT

27th June 2023, 04:23 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	I would wager Spanish colonial and perhaps Brazilian. The star and SS patterns I've seen on a few Brazilian sword hilts like the one I used to own. Of course, these decorations are seen with other cultures (Moroccan, Algerian), but the overall look of the piece, the 'facone'-style blade and even the squared guard are more Central/South American. My 2 cents...

3rd July 2023, 01:05 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I'd look to the Mexico and more specifically New Mexico regions for this type. PI would "typically" have a screw on pommel nut.