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Old 18th June 2023, 01:30 AM   #1
Gavin Nugent
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Worth a read and perhaps better keyword searches within the museum and other UK museums might turn up something

Scroll down to "Crime and paranoia in London and India".
The the period model within the article shows the murders by strangulation and the grave being dug with the picks.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/exhibi...ting-histories

The model from 7 angles.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collec..._As1847-0630-6

Links provided as I have not read the terms of use for images.

On Kali;
https://www.britishmuseum.org/exhibi...ution/timeline
Something I ponder within the notes from the museum is what Kali Symbolised post India conquest, being anti-colonial resistance.
Given the period and the "heyday" of the Thugee rising during colonial times.... Whilst only "opportunity" was targeted more than colonial occupation, does their cult and acts interplay with this resistance as much as what we already know from literature?

Not noted as Thugee but of the form in the engraving
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collec...ject/A_As-9661

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Old 4th December 2025, 08:41 PM   #2
Jim McDougall
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Thought I'd give this a bump.....still an interesting topic !! Still no evidence of an actual axe with connections to the thugs. Its seems funny how that word has been used to describe unsavory characters through the years, but few people ever know where the term came from.

Thought maybe I'd specify what it is that still intrigues me, though it has been mentioned since I started this topic in 2007......wow, its been a minute! There are hopefully new readers and contributors out there as many from these earlier threads have essentially, and unfortunately, ceased writing here.

It has been suggested that the 'thuggee' situation was actually something contrived in the time of the British Raj as a sensationalized matter which created fear and support in their bid to control these populations in India, based on the fact that prior to the British coming to power there had been no active awareness of any such cult in native context. Naturally these matters always have more than one side, so bringing it up here is not intended for contention, but simply noted toward discussion on where the 'thuggee' phenomenon began.

As noted from the beginning of this thread, my personal interest was generated from the 1939 movie "Gunga Din" (Cary Grant, Douglas Fairbanks Jr.) which I watched countless times and being intrigued by the mysterious 'thuggee' cult, with the commanding officer holding the deadly axe used by them. Over the years I wanted to discover..was there such a group, and what were these deadly axes.

It seems clear that Hollywood seized on the longstanding lore of the Raj, and created their interpretation of the thuggee cult and axes. The axe used in the film appears to be a rather standard pickaxe tool. That aspect of the overall interpretation is of most concern here, outside the many other details on the thuggee.

As has been mentioned many times over these years, one of the most likely candidates for the apocryphal 'axe of the thuggee', is IMO the 'LOHAR' of the Indian northwest. These curious axes seem described typically (Stone, 1934) as the small axe of the Banochie/ Bannuchi tribe in Bannu Khyber regions. There is the suggestion that these axes are key personal items of these tribesmen and that each man crafts his own weapon. These axes are typically it seems smaller versions of the Indian 'zaghnal' (dagger axe) which were heavier war axes used by horsemen. With this came the notion that these were deadly combat weapons, and other ideas being the overplayed version of use for hamstringing horses (used in numerous other ethnographic weapon cases).

In Indian ethnography, the Lohar are noted as an ethnic group situated in Uttar Pradesh, Nepal, Jharkhand, but noted in Punjab as well. The word in Sanskrit means iron, metalworker etc. Some references indicate these Lohar were itinerant metal workers.

In the references I have seen on Thugs, it is said as part of their tradition, EACH MAN MUST MAKE HIS OWN AXE.........sounds like the Bannuchi story, each man makes his own axe (lohar).
The Thugs version have each axe commonly marked with 7 red dots (the meaning of this is not referenced anywhere I have found). Supposedly the cult purpose is to worship the Hindu goddess Kali. However a good percentage of the Thugs were apparently Muslim.

The lohar axe, despite notions as a weapon, is too small typically for such use in combat, however it could be easily concealed and used as a weapon covertly, which seems more likely.
In the Thug version, it seems odd that the axe was so important , as the method of dispatching victims was strangulation, and mention of these axes as weapons is made. However, one reference notes use for grave digging to 'hide bodies'.
All of this sounds profoundly contrived, and the interpolation of these elements seems at hand.

Again, I hope perhaps anyone has ever seen any example or reference to a Thug axe, or has ideas in regard to my lohar theory.
Whatever the case, it was indeed an interesting topic.
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Old 7th December 2025, 07:58 PM   #3
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Yes, certain Afghani tribes required a budding youth to forge his own folding sickle. They pop up on auctiosn occasionally. They still make them. This is mine:
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Old 7th December 2025, 08:05 PM   #4
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Thanks Wayne for coming in on this! I figured it was gonna be pretty much a soliloquy as these areas are so esoteric. Thats a great example, and most interesting to know that these axes are still a traditional item in tribal contexts in Afghanistan. While possibly a tenacious connection as far as the thugs, in the 19th century during the Raj, there was little distinction recognized by most of the British population as far as accounts and literature so things might have become a bit mingled.
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Old 7th December 2025, 09:34 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
Thanks Wayne for coming in on this! I figured it was gonna be pretty much a soliloquy as these areas are so esoteric. Thats a great example, and most interesting to know that these axes are still a traditional item in tribal contexts in Afghanistan. While possibly a tenacious connection as far as the thugs, in the 19th century during the Raj, there was little distinction recognized by most of the British population as far as accounts and literature so things might have become a bit mingled.

Yup, I doubt there is any connection to the thugs. The Movie used a lot of dramatic license.
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Old 31st December 2025, 06:03 PM   #6
Jim McDougall
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To continue this VERY esoteric topic, and just for research fun, I have continued with this. As noted, there is no doubt a great deal of 'license' was taken in 1939 with the Cary Grant film "Gunga Din", but as always my curiosity compels me to discover the seeds for these elements. Clearly the writers took from the famed Kipling poem, and in the 30s, the British were indeed still in the 'Khyber', but the 'Thuggee' feature was notably an esoteric perspective not part of that poem.

The tenuous association with the 'Thug' pickaxe and the 'lohar' remains temptingly associated, and I finally located one of these to satisfy my idea in the collection. This is simply the case for 'old guy' fascination with long ago things recalled from youth....and the countless times I watched this movie, not realizing until these later years the impact of the intriguing 'thugs' and these mysterious axes they used, though ceremoniously.

Finally locating a copy of the book by Col. James Sleeman, grandson of the British officer who finally beat the Thugs, and signed edition 1940, I put these items together.

I could not resist my usual humor in recalling watching the original movie in my younger years, thinking of the overplayed part of Sam Jaffee, who played the part of the native water carrier, Gunga Din, and his passionate bugling.
A great parody of this was played by Peter Sellers in "The Party" (1968).

So just for fun, and a serious pairing of the Afghan axe 'lohar' with the book on the thugs, along with a lighter look at the wonderful movie I enjoyed so much.
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Old 31st December 2025, 07:13 PM   #7
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... along with a lighter look at the wonderful movie I enjoyed so much.
Corporal Din should have received the VC. I'll dig up a cc. & watch it tonight
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Old 2nd January 2026, 08:51 AM   #8
Ian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
...
A great parody of this was played by Peter Sellers in "The Party" (1968).
....
"Mmmm. Birdy num-nums." One of Peter Sellers' best.
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