Kris hilt material query

David · 19th May 2023, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

With hindsight, it is possible that it may be rhino.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6162

One should be really looking at any trace of dotty structure.

I don't see any photo of this hilt in this thread that gives the impression that this hilt is rhino. You are correct that one needs to identify the tubular structure of rhino horn that would terminate at the surface in tiny dots, but no such structure is visible in these images. If Sid can see such structure in his hilt it would probably be visible by looking straight at the "face" of the hilt. Using a strong flashlight can also help as the horn should be somewhat translucent. If Sid can see this structure perhaps he can capture in in photos from a better angle.

A. G. Maisey · 19th May 2023, 10:35 PM

Yes Detlef, he uses "panghulu" for "hilt", and it appears that this is Bugis usage, it is a word that is used for all the keris hilts in his book, for example, on P.147 a figural hilt is shown, the caption tells us that it is a "Pangulu Tau-tau".

It is entirely possible that many collectors have decided for themselves that only the pistol grip type of hilt is the "pangulu", but if so, this is out of culture usage in a way that is only applicable to a segment of the collector society.

This sort of thing, ie, incorrect usage of terms & words, is fairly common amongst collectors, and provided it stays within the collector community, I cannot see much wrong with it, at least they understand what they are talking about --- provided they only use these incorrect terms with one another.

Collectors in general, not only keris collectors, but collectors in other fields as well, seem to have a great desire to categorise everything, if use of incorrect terms assists in their categorisation, that need not be any sort of a problem for those who wish to develop their studies past a parade of names.

Sajen · 20th May 2023, 12:29 AM

Agree complete with you. When we go with Ahmad Ubbe the hilt in question is called "rekko".

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 20th May 2023, 06:42 AM

Yep.

19th May 2023, 10:35 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Yes Detlef, he uses "panghulu" for "hilt", and it appears that this is Bugis usage, it is a word that is used for all the keris hilts in his book, for example, on P.147 a figural hilt is shown, the caption tells us that it is a "Pangulu Tau-tau". It is entirely possible that many collectors have decided for themselves that only the pistol grip type of hilt is the "pangulu", but if so, this is out of culture usage in a way that is only applicable to a segment of the collector society. This sort of thing, ie, incorrect usage of terms & words, is fairly common amongst collectors, and provided it stays within the collector community, I cannot see much wrong with it, at least they understand what they are talking about --- provided they only use these incorrect terms with one another. Collectors in general, not only keris collectors, but collectors in other fields as well, seem to have a great desire to categorise everything, if use of incorrect terms assists in their categorisation, that need not be any sort of a problem for those who wish to develop their studies past a parade of names.

20th May 2023, 12:29 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Agree complete with you. When we go with Ahmad Ubbe the hilt in question is called "rekko". Regards, Detlef

20th May 2023, 06:42 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Yep.