Turkey Swords - C17th England

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Triarii

Does anyone have any of the wording of the full sections on the Turky / semitarie swords from FH Cripps-Day Fragmenta Armamentaria II please?
I'd like to see / quote at least the contextual text of one of the relevant sections. If the words are used together then it (to my mind) provides a definite contemporary account - together with the Sandal Castle sword - of curved blades / Turcaels being used and established in England during the late C16th, through early C17th militia ordinances and potentially on into the mid C17th, including during the Civil Wars (my main interest).

It's also of interest because the description aligns with the English masters of defence view on using cutting weapons vice the longer and narrower bladed rapiers or 'tucks' - whether they use thrusting or cut and thrust blades - which are arriving from the continent and seen in many European battle paintings eg the works of Peter Snayers.

I've been looking about to try and find the volume referred to, but it doesn't seem to be actually available, even on JSTOR.

It seems that FH Cripps-Day was very much aligned with Sir Guy Francis Laking and wrote a supplemental volume with his 1925 "A Record of European Armor and Arms Through Seven Centuries".

As you note, it is extremely hard to find these volumes but it does seem there are reprints and on Amazon and others, copies of such material can be acquired 'on demand'. I did not go further into 'the web' but it does seem that some networking might lead to possibilities. As these are typically in various volumes in these works, the trick is to acquire the right one and availability of volumes does not always include the one you need.

Also Ken Trotman books in England is probably one of the best sources for rare and obscure material on these kinds of topics. I have books on the English Civil Wars, Hounslow etc. but these do not provide the kind of specifics you need in their notes on arms.

Cornelistromp here is likely the best contact for these kinds of esoteric arms material as well.

[Triarii]

Jim,

Yes - identifying if the book that appears in a search is the right volume is the problem. None matched the exact title. The Royal Armouries have a copy.

I've found Markham (some good stuff on waistbelts /girdles and baldricks too) and RR Sharpe, which mentions Turky and Turkey blades and Irish and open hilts, so there's another link that the basket hilts had 'Turky' blades.

[Triarii]

Coming back to Turkey swords and Irish hilts, I had some comms with the Wakefield Museum staff about the Sandal Castle basket hilted sword and unfortunately the curve to the blade is bend damage rather than a curved blade.