Identifying 3 hilts

milandro · 22nd March 2023, 01:44 PM

perhaps I wasn't clear, they aren't mine, I found these on line so I cannot answer your query , I don't think it is Ivory.

David · 22nd March 2023, 02:40 PM

So i do believe we see enough examples of this "Rarung" (for want of a better name) hilts to confirm that it is a specific form of Bali hilt. But the question still remains in my mind when did this hilt form first emerge and does it have any real legitimacy as an socially accepted form? I don't think i have seen any examples that are antique. Has anyone?

milandro · 22nd March 2023, 02:49 PM

in time we may come across them

David · 22nd March 2023, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

in time we may come across them

Where do you think they might be hiding?

milandro · 22nd March 2023, 06:06 PM

well, as much as one may think that all the kris people of the world would roam these pages, I believe that there may be the slight chance that many more krises are out there than people are here.

Also, I cannot believe that only an handful of carvers and, all of a sudden, without any reason started to depict Rarung in their carvings, just in the last few years.

Since Emile van Veenendaal came across this hilt and made mention in his book , it may have been not contemporary but older at the time it was written.

So chances are that there are more out there and , my guess, that some of these may be even of some age

maybe not quite so surprisingly the thread is one of the most important sources on line concerning Raring ....

A. G. Maisey · 22nd March 2023, 10:58 PM

It seems that many of us have come to agreement that this lady (?) who is having the bad hair day is Rarung.

Now we know that Rarung was not noted for regular visits to a hair stylist, & also that she avoided the use of hair spray, in fact, most comments on Rarung's hair indicate that it was decidedly unkempt.

Yesterday I spent some time on looking at traditional representations of Rarung --- carvings, dance costumes & etc . I looked at a lot.

I could not find a single traditional Balinese representation of Rarung with her unkempt hair covering her fanged face.

This raises in my mind the possibility that perhaps all these representations of Rarung with her face covered by a veil of hair are perhaps airport art.

werecow · 30th March 2023, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It seems that many of us have come to agreement that this lady (?) who is having the bad hair day is Rarung.

Alternate hypothesis: Cousin It once made a visit to Indonesia.

(Actually I wonder if there was some cross-cultural influence there when the Addams Family writers came up with that character.)

David · 17th May 2023, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

well, as much as one may think that all the kris people of the world would roam these pages, I believe that there may be the slight chance that many more krises are out there than people are here.

Also, I cannot believe that only an handful of carvers and, all of a sudden, without any reason started to depict Rarung in their carvings, just in the last few years.

Since Emile van Veenendaal came across this hilt and made mention in his book , it may have been not contemporary but older at the time it was written.

So chances are that there are more out there and , my guess, that some of these may be even of some age

maybe not quite so surprisingly the thread is one of the most important sources on line concerning Raring ....

Thanks for posting another example. Again we have a very contemporary example. Hopefully you don't believe that the majority of us on this forum only haunt these "hallowed" halls. LOL! Personally i search out keris information wherever i can find it, keep a rather large (relatively) library of keris related books and moderator two other online keris groups. I've been on this search for information for 40 years now. Some here much longer. This does not, of course, mean that antique versions of this hilt do not exist. I just haven't seem them if they do. If we all keep searching perhaps one with some old provenance will turn up.

David · 4th July 2023, 07:29 PM

Just adding to our archive base on this particular hilt form. The first one was already posted by Detlef in post #24, but it is rephotographed from a book, so this is a better image.
The second one is a bit different in design, though i suspect it belongs in the same family possibly meant to depict the same figure.

22nd March 2023, 06:06 PM	#5
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	well, as much as one may think that all the kris people of the world would roam these pages, I believe that there may be the slight chance that many more krises are out there than people are here. Also, I cannot believe that only an handful of carvers and, all of a sudden, without any reason started to depict Rarung in their carvings, just in the last few years. Since Emile van Veenendaal came across this hilt and made mention in his book , it may have been not contemporary but older at the time it was written. So chances are that there are more out there and , my guess, that some of these may be even of some age maybe not quite so surprisingly the thread is one of the most important sources on line concerning Raring .... Last edited by milandro; 22nd March 2023 at 06:24 PM. Reason: addition

4th July 2023, 07:29 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Just adding to our archive base on this particular hilt form. The first one was already posted by Detlef in post #24, but it is rephotographed from a book, so this is a better image. The second one is a bit different in design, though i suspect it belongs in the same family possibly meant to depict the same figure. Attached Images

22nd March 2023, 01:44 PM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	perhaps I wasn't clear, they aren't mine, I found these on line so I cannot answer your query , I don't think it is Ivory.

22nd March 2023, 02:40 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	So i do believe we see enough examples of this "Rarung" (for want of a better name) hilts to confirm that it is a specific form of Bali hilt. But the question still remains in my mind when did this hilt form first emerge and does it have any real legitimacy as an socially accepted form? I don't think i have seen any examples that are antique. Has anyone?

22nd March 2023, 02:49 PM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	in time we may come across them

22nd March 2023, 10:58 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	It seems that many of us have come to agreement that this lady (?) who is having the bad hair day is Rarung. Now we know that Rarung was not noted for regular visits to a hair stylist, & also that she avoided the use of hair spray, in fact, most comments on Rarung's hair indicate that it was decidedly unkempt. Yesterday I spent some time on looking at traditional representations of Rarung --- carvings, dance costumes & etc . I looked at a lot. I could not find a single traditional Balinese representation of Rarung with her unkempt hair covering her fanged face. This raises in my mind the possibility that perhaps all these representations of Rarung with her face covered by a veil of hair are perhaps airport art.