New Acquisition, Mandau, said to be 1800's

JoeCanada42 · 21st February 2023, 09:31 AM

antler thanks, and thanks for the discourse so far,

I read for the best Dayak blades the purchaser would pay a native 10x the initial purchase cost to have the sword used for up to a year to test its quality, and that on these good native blades the beveled concave edge was sanded down by hand... it looks like that's what I got, not a forged or grinded down shape.
also the curve to the blade I was hoping is something the happened when tempered the old fashion way.

JoeCanada42 · 21st February 2023, 09:37 AM

hmm I did research human bone vs animal bone and saw that human is more porous ( one side of mine looked "porous"), I neglected to research bone compared to antler, I will research it.
I was aware antler was more common for these including the older ones.

werecow · 21st February 2023, 12:29 PM

I recently saw a mandau with H.S. stamped into it in similar manner. All it said was early 20th century. Unfortunately I can't post pictures since it is still on sale.

Sajen · 21st February 2023, 03:20 PM

Hello Joe,

May I ask if the blade has a concave/convex profile?

Regards,
Detlef

David · 21st February 2023, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Joe,

May I ask if the blade has a concave/convex profile?

Regards,
Detlef

As to Detlef's question here, some might argue, but from my understanding a mandau has a convex/concave blade. This blade does not. So for my money this is not really a mandau. While it does have some age, i don't think i would place it much older than early 20th century. It's hard to say more about the blade with a good cleaning to remove all that dirt and rust. This could be a European blade that was adapted. It has some odd features i have not seen on this type of sword before.
What i can say without a doubt is that there is no way this is a VOC blade. Cleaning the blade might help reveal what is actually stamped into the steel, but i seriously doubt it is VOC.

Sajen · 21st February 2023, 04:34 PM

Agree with David, when it has indeed not a convex/concave blade it isn't a mandau!

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 21st February 2023, 06:02 PM

Hello Joe,

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

As to Detlef's question here, some might argue, but from my understanding a mandau has a convex/concave blade. This blade does not.

From the pics, I'm not sure yet - please confirm, Joe!

The concave side can be (almost) flat, too: It's more that the other side does exhibit a clearly convex profile...

Regards,
Kai

kai · 21st February 2023, 06:32 PM

Hello Joe,

I can't read the metal due to the rust and partial cleaning - I agree that at least a gentle, even cleaning with fine steel wool and lots of elbow grease will be preferable.

As mentioned, this certainly isn't a VOC blade: Those were European blades, never local styles. (And you can't get a broad cleaver out of a slender sword/sabre.) Anyway, this font will never fly as VOC. Moreover, lots of Indo blades received false VOC marks - much like many European marks got copied by the competition!

I also doubt this blade is as old as claimed: Especially the base of the blade is not typical and also the tip seems a bit odd, even for a possibly worn blade. While some later blades have European letters on them, this certainly is not a traditional feature. Some earlier blades also got crafted from imported steel and blanks that didn't got fully reforged by the bladesmiths may show remnants of European lettering; in this case the lettering is crisp and seems to be aligned well with the back of the blade which is pointing towards very limited changes in shape.

The English (Wilkinson?) did supply blades in local styles. Not sure about mandau though - this might be worth following up on!

The scabbard isn't terribly old either (the rattan bands seem to show some age though).

All in all and based on the currently available pics, I'd guess this might well originate from the 2nd half of 20th c.

Regards,
Kai

21st February 2023, 09:31 AM	#1
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	antler thanks, and thanks for the discourse so far, I read for the best Dayak blades the purchaser would pay a native 10x the initial purchase cost to have the sword used for up to a year to test its quality, and that on these good native blades the beveled concave edge was sanded down by hand... it looks like that's what I got, not a forged or grinded down shape. also the curve to the blade I was hoping is something the happened when tempered the old fashion way.

21st February 2023, 09:37 AM	#2
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	hmm I did research human bone vs animal bone and saw that human is more porous ( one side of mine looked "porous"), I neglected to research bone compared to antler, I will research it. I was aware antler was more common for these including the older ones.

21st February 2023, 12:29 PM	#3
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 589	I recently saw a mandau with H.S. stamped into it in similar manner. All it said was early 20th century. Unfortunately I can't post pictures since it is still on sale.

21st February 2023, 03:20 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	Hello Joe, May I ask if the blade has a concave/convex profile? Regards, Detlef

21st February 2023, 04:34 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	Agree with David, when it has indeed not a convex/concave blade it isn't a mandau! Regards, Detlef

21st February 2023, 06:32 PM	#8
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Joe, I can't read the metal due to the rust and partial cleaning - I agree that at least a gentle, even cleaning with fine steel wool and lots of elbow grease will be preferable. As mentioned, this certainly isn't a VOC blade: Those were European blades, never local styles. (And you can't get a broad cleaver out of a slender sword/sabre.) Anyway, this font will never fly as VOC. Moreover, lots of Indo blades received false VOC marks - much like many European marks got copied by the competition! I also doubt this blade is as old as claimed: Especially the base of the blade is not typical and also the tip seems a bit odd, even for a possibly worn blade. While some later blades have European letters on them, this certainly is not a traditional feature. Some earlier blades also got crafted from imported steel and blanks that didn't got fully reforged by the bladesmiths may show remnants of European lettering; in this case the lettering is crisp and seems to be aligned well with the back of the blade which is pointing towards very limited changes in shape. The English (Wilkinson?) did supply blades in local styles. Not sure about mandau though - this might be worth following up on! The scabbard isn't terribly old either (the rattan bands seem to show some age though). All in all and based on the currently available pics, I'd guess this might well originate from the 2nd half of 20th c. Regards, Kai