keris for comment

Sang Keris · 29th January 2005, 04:38 PM

huhhhuhuhuhuhu..

nice scabbard , but i think its jogja style..

will not fit with my keris.. mine is maduran keris...

Sepang · 29th January 2005, 08:13 PM

Wrangka Penanggalan/Tanggalan for the first made from Kasultanan Demak, about 1480 - 1590 AC. Morover, this wrangka to be extend by Mataram Surakarta and Jogja, and then, became many models of wrangka, like Gayaman and Ladrang (Ensiklopedia Keris p:520).

My wrangka is an old made. It Is so hard to get this original wrangka like this, 'cause, it was a discontinued models.

Yes, that this wrangka is not appropriate with your keris

I just want to give an image that if you need to take care your keris with clear, you should know about wrangka style too........, but I think you was

Sang Keris · 30th January 2005, 03:08 AM

yea...yea..

DhenTal · 31st January 2005, 11:08 AM

I don't think that the photos was posted by sang kris is a good piece.
How can anybody give opinion that this kriss is so beautiful ? I just look a kriss with a glamour scabbard. Kriss it self, not older than 5 yrs, but it was give some chemical so that it look so old.

And, sepang scabbard, although he told that all of scabbard are old, but I don't think so. How can the old wood can still whole until now ? Is that impossible.

Sepang · 31st January 2005, 12:37 PM

DhenTal...., would U please give me some reason about your opinion ?

Alam Shah · 31st January 2005, 02:13 PM

DhenTal wrote:
> I don't think that the photos was posted by sang kris is a good piece.

What constitute a good or bad piece? In my opinion, it may not be old but still it is a nicely built piece.

> How can anybody give opinion that this kriss is so beautiful ? I just look a
> kriss with a glamour scabbard. Kriss it self, not older than 5 yrs, but it was
> give some chemical so that it look so old.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. It may be real/fake or new/old, it doesn't matter as much in terms of beauty. The intricity of the artwork and detailing of the ukiran deserves mention.

Dhental, if you mix in a keris community, you would know that your comment style is considered inappropriate in keris culture ethics. (Never criticise a piece in public, unless it is specifically asked for by the owner).

BluErf · 31st January 2005, 02:55 PM

But then, the truth is bitter (mostly)... and sometimes, in order to learn, one has to be knocked once or twice on the head to get things in. Hearing people say that the pieces are 'nice' or 'beautiful' does not add to long term learning.

Montino Bourbon · 31st January 2005, 03:35 PM

It's very interesting to hear the debate on whether a piece is 'real', 'genuine', 'has chi', and so forth.

Years ago, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York aquired some Etruscan sculptures that were some of the most beautiful that anyone had ever seen. It was said of these sculptures, which included a famous head of a warrior which is still in some texts as a classic, that they had 'Clearly the Etruscan Magic"!

Years later, the Italian who had made them (!) came forward and admitted that he had made them; and being an artist as well as a freak, he had prayed over them and done ceremony before burying them, and imbued them with 'chi'.

I have seen keris made recently, including a piece made in the USA, which are outstanding, and which I am sure a rajah or a great leader in Indonesia would consider worthy of owning. I have also seen old keris which I would consider trash.

As I have said before, if I like it and I hold it in my hand, it's got plenty of chi; but I would refer you to an article called

What Makes a Weapon "Magickal"?
A Cross-Cultural Survey of Empowering Characteristics

Ruel A. Macaraeg

as for 'real' vs. 'fake' even the so-called 'experts' cannot agree on many things. Yes, there is expertise, but if you like a piece of art you like it, whether it's old or new; and new pieces are made which are equal in quality and chi to old ones. Take it from a Roman born in Rome; that which is new today becomes very soon old, and we don't have much of an idea of what previous civilizations have accomplished.

29th January 2005, 04:38 PM	#1
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	huhhhuhuhuhuhu.. nice scabbard , but i think its jogja style.. will not fit with my keris.. mine is maduran keris... Last edited by Sang Keris; 30th January 2005 at 03:07 AM.

29th January 2005, 08:13 PM	#2
Sepang Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 33	Wrangka Penanggalan Wrangka Penanggalan/Tanggalan for the first made from Kasultanan Demak, about 1480 - 1590 AC. Morover, this wrangka to be extend by Mataram Surakarta and Jogja, and then, became many models of wrangka, like Gayaman and Ladrang (Ensiklopedia Keris p:520). My wrangka is an old made. It Is so hard to get this original wrangka like this, 'cause, it was a discontinued models. Yes, that this wrangka is not appropriate with your keris I just want to give an image that if you need to take care your keris with clear, you should know about wrangka style too........, but I think you was

31st January 2005, 02:13 PM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	DhenTal wrote: > I don't think that the photos was posted by sang kris is a good piece. What constitute a good or bad piece? In my opinion, it may not be old but still it is a nicely built piece. > How can anybody give opinion that this kriss is so beautiful ? I just look a > kriss with a glamour scabbard. Kriss it self, not older than 5 yrs, but it was > give some chemical so that it look so old. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. It may be real/fake or new/old, it doesn't matter as much in terms of beauty. The intricity of the artwork and detailing of the ukiran deserves mention. Dhental, if you mix in a keris community, you would know that your comment style is considered inappropriate in keris culture ethics. (Never criticise a piece in public, unless it is specifically asked for by the owner). Last edited by prime; 1st February 2005 at 08:29 AM. Reason: grammar

31st January 2005, 03:35 PM	#8
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	'genuine-ness' and 'power' are relative It's very interesting to hear the debate on whether a piece is 'real', 'genuine', 'has chi', and so forth. Years ago, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York aquired some Etruscan sculptures that were some of the most beautiful that anyone had ever seen. It was said of these sculptures, which included a famous head of a warrior which is still in some texts as a classic, that they had 'Clearly the Etruscan Magic"! Years later, the Italian who had made them (!) came forward and admitted that he had made them; and being an artist as well as a freak, he had prayed over them and done ceremony before burying them, and imbued them with 'chi'. I have seen keris made recently, including a piece made in the USA, which are outstanding, and which I am sure a rajah or a great leader in Indonesia would consider worthy of owning. I have also seen old keris which I would consider trash. As I have said before, if I like it and I hold it in my hand, it's got plenty of chi; but I would refer you to an article called What Makes a Weapon "Magickal"? A Cross-Cultural Survey of Empowering Characteristics Ruel A. Macaraeg as for 'real' vs. 'fake' even the so-called 'experts' cannot agree on many things. Yes, there is expertise, but if you like a piece of art you like it, whether it's old or new; and new pieces are made which are equal in quality and chi to old ones. Take it from a Roman born in Rome; that which is new today becomes very soon old, and we don't have much of an idea of what previous civilizations have accomplished.

30th January 2005, 03:08 AM	#3
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	yea...yea..

31st January 2005, 11:08 AM	#4
DhenTal Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 20	I don't think that the photos was posted by sang kris is a good piece. How can anybody give opinion that this kriss is so beautiful ? I just look a kriss with a glamour scabbard. Kriss it self, not older than 5 yrs, but it was give some chemical so that it look so old. And, sepang scabbard, although he told that all of scabbard are old, but I don't think so. How can the old wood can still whole until now ? Is that impossible.

31st January 2005, 12:37 PM	#5
Sepang Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 33	DhenTal...., would U please give me some reason about your opinion ?

31st January 2005, 02:55 PM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	But then, the truth is bitter (mostly)... and sometimes, in order to learn, one has to be knocked once or twice on the head to get things in. Hearing people say that the pieces are 'nice' or 'beautiful' does not add to long term learning.