Period Photos of People with Ethnographic Arms

[TVV]

Originally Posted by gp

Just wanted to post some pics of Makedonian Komitadzis with focus on their cold weapons and avoid a discussion about the sensitivity around it.

If you feel offended about 1 out of the 4 pics and my interpretation of a newspaper comment of 130 years ago mentioning the men as Makedonian Komitadzis, my sincere apologies as it was not my intention to upset your Bulgarian feelings…
Perhaps next a Greek person can object to the Saloniki picture as this is presently in Greece….
Should we really go down that road?

The comment on the newspaper originates from an Australian historical review, so not bias by any connection to the region.

I have got an inlaw who might differ from your opinion concerning the men on the picture as he is Makedonian, but I sincerly do want to refrain from going there…. as I personally witnessed in Sarajevo 1988- 1992 what “ calling things by there real name “ can result to…
Obviously neither disrespect nor offence intended and without accusing you of going down that road..
Let’s agree to focus & discuss the arms and not politics please. Thank you very much.

What we collect here are not replicas, but historic weapons. The study of these weapons is meaningless when they are removed from their historic context, and that context most certainly includes the people who used the arms, and their motivation to take up arms in the first place.

The pictures you posted from the Ilinden Uprising are those of ВМОРО chetniks. The abbreviations stands for Вътрешна Македоно-Одринска Революционна Организация, which translates into Internal Macedonian-Adrianopolitan Revolutionary Organization. It was established by Bulgarians, its followers were overwhelmingly Bulgarian and after the failure of the uprising, they continued to support Bulgarian goals and interests, including the Bulgarian army through the Balkan Wars and WWI. These are historical facts, which contribute to the knowledge and study of the weapons on the pictures.

If we strive to attribute swords and daggers to particular tribes in Africa and South-East Asia, there should not be any sensitivity in pointing out the correct ethnicity of armed people in the Balkans either.

[gp]

Originally Posted by TVV

What we collect here are not replicas, but historic weapons. The study of these weapons is meaningless when they are removed from their historic context, and that context most certainly includes the people who used the arms, and their motivation to take up arms in the first place.

The pictures you posted from the Ilinden Uprising are those of ВМОРО chetniks. The abbreviations stands for Вътрешна Македоно-Одринска Революционна Организация, which translates into Internal Macedonian-Adrianopolitan Revolutionary Organization. It was established by Bulgarians, its followers were overwhelmingly Bulgarian and after the failure of the uprising, they continued to support Bulgarian goals and interests, including the Bulgarian army through the Balkan Wars and WWI. These are historical facts, which contribute to the knowledge and study of the weapons on the pictures.

If we strive to attribute swords and daggers to particular tribes in Africa and South-East Asia, there should not be any sensitivity in pointing out the correct ethnicity of armed people in the Balkans either.

Thank you for your reply but this is what I wanted to avoid: the Bulgarian “claim” on everything relating to Macedonia or justification of the many “interpretations” between two “brothers” or if you like “cousins” in the region.

Being Bulgarian does not mean you are right, neither do I claim it to be: I am just a simply “cloggy” , i.e. Dutch with a connection to several Balkan countries ( Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Kosovo and Albania)
Nor do I want to start a polemic like Edith Durham and R. W. Seton-Watson had on Serbia and Albania.

Hence my request to the mods to delete the 3rd picture which is the source of TVV’s “firm” reaction.

Question to TVV: what type of weapons did they ( Bulgarians and Makedonians on the pictures) use and what is the difference between the weapons : if there's one ?

[TVV]

For that particular period of time, especially when it comes to the fighters in question, you can use the term Macedonians and Bulgarians interchangeably, since we are talking about the same people. While the weapon of choice was probably a Mannlicher carbine, the panoply included almost every imaginable system available in Europe at the time that they could get their hands on, though standard military patterns are outside the scope of this forum. When it comes to edged weapons, the kamas and yataghans that were used are virtually indistinguishable from those used throughout the Balkans, especially the Eastern Balkans in these times and the preceding century.

[gp]

and now for something completely different....


drawings of the Pandurs between 1742 -1760 ; in service of the Habsburg Empire in Hungary / Croatia ...the borderland and mostly know as Baron Franz von der Trenck's pandurs. not to be mistaken with his cousin Friedrich Freiherr von der Trenck. Although both lead a colorful life .

[gp]

some close up details; Pandurs and zhusars in battle

[mahratt]

Khassadars with choora daggers, Waziristan, 1920

[dat_man]

Bedouins with spears/ lances