Mexican Rurales saber 1870s

urbanspaceman · 25th January 2023, 12:13 PM

Hello Jim. This is a fine piece of history... actually, two fine pieces of history: the sword and your narrative, both of which which are greatly appreciated; thank-you for the posting.
The sabre is an attractive sword and - as is your want - enshrines many possibilities in its beaten condition.
It does raise a question however: what is the story behind the centavo embellishment? Is it purely decorative, or is it just a practical addition to a loose grip? Any thoughts?

Jim McDougall · 25th January 2023, 08:55 PM

Thank you so much for the thoughtful entry Keith! It seems not a resounding interest in Mexican history out there overall, so much appreciated.
Actually I'm not too experienced in coins, and this one is so defaced its hard to tell what this is or a date.
My guess is that it might be in the realm of a good luck item, or simply fancy embellishment.
In rural areas, there was a lot of innovation in refurbishing and repurposing weaponry, so we can only speculate the situation with this old saber.

It seems I've come across other Mexican swords like this, in similar condition, so rough handling was not unusual.

fernando · 26th January 2023, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

... It does raise a question however: what is the story behind the centavo embellishment? Is it purely decorative, or is it just a practical addition to a loose grip? Any thoughts?

The problem is that Mexico minted zillions of different centavos coins, from the XIX century to just the other day. We fall asleep before we finish checking them all.
This one seems to gather conditions to be the same as in that pommel; letter composition and positioning. So a later addition to a loose grip could be a good thought.

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Jim McDougall · 26th January 2023, 08:08 PM

There can be no doubt this saber had a quite extended working life, and very hard one as can be seen by its battered character. In Mexico, as noted,many regions are of course quite rural, and poor. A weapon, despite condition, would be used as required. While this one clearly had issuance of some type at some point early in its life, but later possibly picked up and 'reserviced'.

At this point, perhaps whoever worked on this added the centavo coin, which in some sense may have been perceived as a lucky charm. The centavos which began being minted in the '2nd Mexican Empire' 1863-1867, were with one (copper) and 5,10,50 in silver. By the time of the Mexican Revolution the currency issues with paper money being almost worthless.
With coinage, the biggest problem was the coins being melted for the silver, and often the bullion being stolen etc. before making it to the mints. The circumstances were volatile to say the least.

It would be hard to estimate the date range of this sword by the coin as it is clear this was added at some point when the sword was worked on. Still, its history reflects the very rugged and intriguing history of Mexico.

Thanks very much Keith and Fernando for the input.

Bayowolf · 4th February 2023, 09:11 PM

IMO, the marking is from the 1870s. This is the style marking commonly seen stamped on Remington Rolling blocks of that era that went to Mexico. Cool sword.

Jim McDougall · 5th February 2023, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayowolf

IMO, the marking is from the 1870s. This is the style marking commonly seen stamped on Remington Rolling blocks of that era that went to Mexico. Cool sword.

Thank you so much!
While pretty well beaten, this has some history and Mexican history is not a well traveled subject. I do recall the Remington's and these weapons all remained in use well past 1900 into the Mexican Revolution.

25th January 2023, 12:13 PM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 577	Money money money Hello Jim. This is a fine piece of history... actually, two fine pieces of history: the sword and your narrative, both of which which are greatly appreciated; thank-you for the posting. The sabre is an attractive sword and - as is your want - enshrines many possibilities in its beaten condition. It does raise a question however: what is the story behind the centavo embellishment? Is it purely decorative, or is it just a practical addition to a loose grip? Any thoughts?

4th February 2023, 09:11 PM	#5
Bayowolf Member Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 20	RM marking IMO, the marking is from the 1870s. This is the style marking commonly seen stamped on Remington Rolling blocks of that era that went to Mexico. Cool sword.

25th January 2023, 08:55 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Thank you so much for the thoughtful entry Keith! It seems not a resounding interest in Mexican history out there overall, so much appreciated. Actually I'm not too experienced in coins, and this one is so defaced its hard to tell what this is or a date. My guess is that it might be in the realm of a good luck item, or simply fancy embellishment. In rural areas, there was a lot of innovation in refurbishing and repurposing weaponry, so we can only speculate the situation with this old saber. It seems I've come across other Mexican swords like this, in similar condition, so rough handling was not unusual.

26th January 2023, 08:08 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	There can be no doubt this saber had a quite extended working life, and very hard one as can be seen by its battered character. In Mexico, as noted,many regions are of course quite rural, and poor. A weapon, despite condition, would be used as required. While this one clearly had issuance of some type at some point early in its life, but later possibly picked up and 'reserviced'. At this point, perhaps whoever worked on this added the centavo coin, which in some sense may have been perceived as a lucky charm. The centavos which began being minted in the '2nd Mexican Empire' 1863-1867, were with one (copper) and 5,10,50 in silver. By the time of the Mexican Revolution the currency issues with paper money being almost worthless. With coinage, the biggest problem was the coins being melted for the silver, and often the bullion being stolen etc. before making it to the mints. The circumstances were volatile to say the least. It would be hard to estimate the date range of this sword by the coin as it is clear this was added at some point when the sword was worked on. Still, its history reflects the very rugged and intriguing history of Mexico. Thanks very much Keith and Fernando for the input.