Sumatran keris

David · 21st January 2023, 09:16 PM

Good questions Alan, and i would suggest that Anthony upload some higher quality close up images. I think it is difficult to be too sure about anything from this one photo.

Gustav · 21st January 2023, 09:21 PM

David, this could be a Keris from one of Alan's previous catalogues. The Gonjo seems to be separately forged from a twisted bar.

David · 21st January 2023, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

David, this could be a Keris from one of Alan's previous catalogues. The Gonjo seems to be separately forged from a twisted bar.

Yes, i agree that the gonjo does seem to be a separate forging, but still the image pixelates too quickly when i try to enlarge it.
I'm sure Alan will be able to tell us if this was a keris he had sold, especially once Anthony replies and possibly adds more detailed images.

Gustav · 21st January 2023, 09:36 PM

Well, let's formulate that in a different way - the Gonjo is made from a twisted bar and separately forged.

rasdan · 21st January 2023, 10:16 PM

Here's my take. The tunggakan can be found on Palembang keris too. The twisted gonjo can be from anywhere. East coast Malaysia Bugis keris also tend to have a twisted bar gonjo even if the blade is mlumah. The blumbangan looks square - Mataram influenced. The front of gandik is curved - West Java, but many later keris use this feature as well.

So this keris overall style is a Mataram style with West Java influence. The thing about West Java keris is that they usually have a forging flaw somewhere on the blade. But I can't say this for all keris, obviously. Some West Javan keris are very nice kerises. This one appears to have good quality forging. So, I have to vote, I'll lean against Sumatra on this one. Usually the provenance of the keris will be used to determine the final verdict.

Below is a photo of the greneng of my Palembang keris. The keris has a square blumbangan, and the greneng is Surakarta. The blumbangan is cut in the style of this keris uploaded by Anthony.

Gustav · 21st January 2023, 10:23 PM

I agree with Rasdan on matter of separately forged Gonjo with complex Pamor found on Peninsula (and Sumatra).

Blumbangan here more likely is Mboto Rubuh.

A. G. Maisey · 21st January 2023, 11:09 PM

It seems that I might be a little less perceptive than some other people.

To me, the gonjo appears to be manipulated into a pamor miring pattern, but from the photos, and most especially, with only photos to help me, I cannot be any more certain than that the gonjo appears to be manipulated, and might be separately forged.

Something else that I feel I might be seeing is a keris with a collection of characteristics that are normally associated with a variety of keris from a variety of different locations and different time periods.

Based upon what I believe I can see in the photos I do not have sufficient information to form any supportable opinion.

Currently, I'm looking at a puzzle.

21st January 2023, 10:16 PM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Here's my take. The tunggakan can be found on Palembang keris too. The twisted gonjo can be from anywhere. East coast Malaysia Bugis keris also tend to have a twisted bar gonjo even if the blade is mlumah. The blumbangan looks square - Mataram influenced. The front of gandik is curved - West Java, but many later keris use this feature as well. So this keris overall style is a Mataram style with West Java influence. The thing about West Java keris is that they usually have a forging flaw somewhere on the blade. But I can't say this for all keris, obviously. Some West Javan keris are very nice kerises. This one appears to have good quality forging. So, I have to vote, I'll lean against Sumatra on this one. Usually the provenance of the keris will be used to determine the final verdict. Below is a photo of the greneng of my Palembang keris. The keris has a square blumbangan, and the greneng is Surakarta. The blumbangan is cut in the style of this keris uploaded by Anthony. Attached Images

21st January 2023, 09:16 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Good questions Alan, and i would suggest that Anthony upload some higher quality close up images. I think it is difficult to be too sure about anything from this one photo.

21st January 2023, 09:21 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	David, this could be a Keris from one of Alan's previous catalogues. The Gonjo seems to be separately forged from a twisted bar.

21st January 2023, 09:36 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Well, let's formulate that in a different way - the Gonjo is made from a twisted bar and separately forged.

21st January 2023, 10:23 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	I agree with Rasdan on matter of separately forged Gonjo with complex Pamor found on Peninsula (and Sumatra). Blumbangan here more likely is Mboto Rubuh.

21st January 2023, 11:09 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	It seems that I might be a little less perceptive than some other people. To me, the gonjo appears to be manipulated into a pamor miring pattern, but from the photos, and most especially, with only photos to help me, I cannot be any more certain than that the gonjo appears to be manipulated, and might be separately forged. Something else that I feel I might be seeing is a keris with a collection of characteristics that are normally associated with a variety of keris from a variety of different locations and different time periods. Based upon what I believe I can see in the photos I do not have sufficient information to form any supportable opinion. Currently, I'm looking at a puzzle.