Keris for identification

[David]

The scabbard definitely seems to be from Sumatra as that inserted toe of horn is a common feature. Lovely wood on the stem which i assume displays chatoyancy.
I see no reason to assume the blade is modern monosteel. It seems to have some legitimate age as well.
While it's difficult to place the origins of blades like this, that are obviously made far outside the standards of any court, it seems somewhat safe to place it in the same area as sheath if indeed it appears the sheath was constructed specifically for it. So South Sumatra is at least a good starting point.

[kai]

Hello David,

This scabbard tip is also found on the Malay Peninsula. The crosspiece does seem to have Sumatran vibes though.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

This scabbard tip is also found on the Malay Peninsula. The crosspiece does seem to have Sumatran vibes though.

I think it is much more common on Sumatran keris (not that it never shows up on a Peninsula sheath.
But i am glad that we both agree this is far more likely a Sumatran keris.
I do think that you will have a hard time pinpointing the exact location of origin with a village made keris like this. Even the sheath crosspiece is not exactly an established recognized form, but village work as well. Could be from any number of places.
I.P., this blade is only 18cm long (about 7 inches). Not very likely it was intended as a serious weapon. More likely served a similar function to either a keris selit or patrem.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by David

I think it is much more common on Sumatran keris (not that it never shows up on a Peninsula sheath.
I.P., this blade is only 18cm long (about 7 inches). Not very likely it was intended as a serious weapon. More likely served a similar function to either a keris selit or patrem.

Thanks David. For some reason I did not process the 18cm when I looked at the screen. On a side note, didn't many Sumatran Sewars have a blade length of around 18cm? Were these considered decorative as well?

Second question for the group. I don't have my reference library within reach currently. Wasn't there an theory of a "woman's keris" originating in Sumatra? Usually in a 3 luk configuration with grening if I remember correctly? Could this dagger be in this family of use?

[David]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Second question for the group. I don't have my reference library within reach currently. Wasn't there an theory of a "woman's keris" originating in Sumatra? Usually in a 3 luk configuration with grening if I remember correctly? Could this dagger be in this family of use?

I have never heard of the concept of patrem originating in Sumatra and have always assumed that they first appeared in Jawa. but maybe someone has some additional information on this. Though it is true that Minangkabau culture adheres to a matrilineal system in terms of marriage, ethnicity, inheritance, and customary titles. It is in fact the largest matrilineal society in the world. So i suppose the idea of keris specifically for women would possibly be more readily accepted there. Of course, Minangkabau is just one of many cultures that have existed on the island of Sumatra.

[SidJ]

I do own my fair share of 'villager keris' though I am not sure what this term means and if it is to be contrasted with more sophisticated ' city keris'. But in this case its worth pointing out that the ganja appears to be a different composition than the blade. The scabbard is also very well made of very good timber with a buntet. The hulu too is well carved and of good wood. It seems to me to be fairly decent overall with attention to detail in its manufacture. I am not therefore clear in which area it lacks refinement.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by SidJ

I I am not therefore clear in which area it lacks refinement.

SidJ, I was referring to the blade only, do you see any refinement in its shape, dapur, pamor, carving, or type of metal?
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by SidJ

I do own my fair share of 'villager keris' though I am not sure what this term means and if it is to be contrasted with more sophisticated ' city keris'. But in this case its worth pointing out that the ganja appears to be a different composition than the blade. The scabbard is also very well made of very good timber with a buntet. The hulu too is well carved and of good wood. It seems to me to be fairly decent overall with attention to detail in its manufacture. I am not therefore clear in which area it lacks refinement.

I cannot say what others might mean when they say something is "village work", but for me it is a keris that is made outside the purview of the keraton and do not necessarily adhere to the stricter pakem or, if outside Javanese influence, the court standards that are expected for keris created for a higher social level. This does not mean that a village keris cannot be well made, or even sophisticated. Village keris exist an all levels of quality of execution. It also doesn't mean that village keris are not worthy of collection. I dare say that MOST of the keris in our collections are certainly not made by an empu, but that does not mean they are necessarily made without skill. And even keris that are made with lesser levels of skill or refinement can have character and presence that draws us to them. Your keris does not seem very refined to eye, but it does seem to have "character".

[kai]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Thanks David. For some reason I did not process the 18cm when I looked at the screen. On a side note, didn't many Sumatran Sewars have a blade length of around 18cm? Were these considered decorative as well?

Most of them certainly are decorative.
Pretty much all sewar are certainly meant to be weapons, indeed.

A blade length of 18cm is certainly enough to be considered as a serious blade and can do enough damage. A short blade affects reach and, thus, fighting style. Obviously, it's not a primary battlefield weapon. Hardly any keris is.

Regards,
Kai