Keris identification

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by rasdan

What I know is that the components can be sourced throughout out Indonesia. Except the blade. Blade is very most likely Madura. Common sources IMHO:

Blade - Madura
Sheath - Can be anywhere, but probably Lombok. Timoho from Lombok is spread everywhere in Java. Many Jogja craftsmen have them.
Pendok/silverworks - probably Lombok or Jogja
Sunggingan - Maybe Bali, Solo, Jakarta

There are thousands of craftsmen throughout Indonesia. From the lowest quality to the best. The best usually work only for a few paymasters. Even dealers do not know all craftsmen. Even in Solo some craftsmen are unknown to some dealers. But I could be wrong though.

You are right in many aspects in your reply. Let wait for more members to guess before I give out the final answers.

[jagabuwana]

Blade is Madura. I think I know which pande made it.
No idea on the others.

[David]

I agree that these days the origin of the parts of such a keris can be gathered from numerous sources. I could guess and say, yeah, the blade is probably from Madura, the sunggungan looks Javanese to me, etc., but the problem here is that for newly made keris, as we move more and more forward in time, the separations of cultures seems to become more and ore generic. Certainly this keris is intended to represent Balinese form and aesthetic, the the crafts people who make all these parts are no longer restricted to their own corner off the archipelago. What you have here is a nice modern art keris that could have been assembled from parts created in a number of different places.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by David

I agree that these days the origin of the parts of such a keris can be gathered from numerous sources. I could guess and say, yeah, the blade is probably from Madura, the sunggungan looks Javanese to me, etc., but the problem here is that for newly made keris, as we move more and more forward in time, the separations of cultures seems to become more and ore generic. Certainly this keris is intended to represent Balinese form and aesthetic, the the crafts people who make all these parts are no longer restricted to their own corner off the archipelago. What you have here is a nice modern art keris that could have been assembled from parts created in a number of different places.

I love your answer

[Anthony G.]

My answer is as below:


1: Bilah source: Forge in Madura by a reputable smith.

2: Warangka and Hulu source: In Lombok.

3: Painting source: In Java.

4: Pendok source: In Lombok.



The reason for doing so as those best craftsmen are located around Indonesia and therefore it is sent to individuals to make the keris.

**Therefore I am not surprise that some antique keris might be 'made' and or adjust as time goes by in this manner as well.
Even in the past, craftsmen travel around.

[rasdan]

I think the practice of sourcing the parts for a keris is completely normal even in the past. The reason that old keris usually have a locally sourced parts is probably due to cost restrictions. For higher level keris, people that can afford it will look for quality thus we can see an ensemble of high-quality parts and blade probably made in different locations put together for a royal keris.

I think people in the past do not really care too much if their keris reflects their birthplace/nationality; they just want quality keris /parts for their keris. The practice of having a geographical identity for keris probably develops in later times where the beliefs surrounding a keris has evolved and spread to different areas, and people tend to have more “tribal pride” (rather than just a sense for quality) and/or when royal houses started to have standardised dress codes for their courts.

It is like the present-day pride of owning a German car. (If I can use this analogy) A lot of people appreciate and are proud of owning a German car because of its quality and legacy regardless of where the owner originates. I think probably nobody (or not many) in Yugoslavia will insists on only driving an all-original Yugo when they can afford a better car just because the Yugo originates in their country.

[David]

Originally Posted by rasdan

I think people in the past do not really care too much if their keris reflects their birthplace/nationality; they just want quality keris /parts for their keris. The practice of having a geographical identity for keris probably develops in later times where the beliefs surrounding a keris has evolved and spread to different areas, and people tend to have more “tribal pride” (rather than just a sense for quality) and/or when royal houses started to have standardised dress codes for their courts.

I don't know how true that is Rasdan. My point about how modern keris are becoming more generic with time i don't think really applies to the past. Keris styles, especially of dress, which is the outward appearance of the keris that was presented to society, i believe were rather formalized, at least when we are discussing keris on a court level. As for people within that specific culture on the village level, those folks probably didn't have a level of income that would permit them to seek high end craftspeople in different parts of the archipelago to create their keris parts. When we see elements in village keris that don't quite meet the standards set by the keraton or puri it is not due to workmanship done outside if the culture, but rather the common folks doing the best they can to emulate what the higher classes are doing.
When i look at this keris, yes, it presents itself as a Bali keris, but for many it is really easy to see that certain aspects of it just don't seem quite right for a true Balinese keris. I think that is fine for a modern "art" keris like this, however, for the social functioning of a keris as element of formal dress in cultural situations i am not so sure this was something that would have been embraced by members a specific keris culture back in the day.