British ribbed iron grip brass sword anomaly

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Hello Jim. I have also questioned these type swords, which some have claimed have a maritime connection. Gilkerson pictured a similar example in 'Boarders Away Volume I' and also showed a wooden storage locker containing a large grouping of a similar sword type listed as possibly naval in Volume II. Here's an interesting example with a m1804 cutlass blade and a fascinating marking on it ('Dorset Mila' ) with GR markings. This iron-ribbed hilt with brass knuckle bow seems to be a 'universal soldier' type and I suspect had multiple uses by different military forces-

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/ori...nt=26168184901

Thank you Capn, glad to have you here!!! Just as seen in Gilkerson, it is hard to see these cast iron ribbed grip and brass guard types as anything but 'maritime' but as seen they seem to have been moved about quite a bit in different contexts. It is reasonable to expect that these swords might be used in militia units much as they were in private security groups and police settings.

Radboud, thank you for the entry on these assemblies of weapons which were apparently cased for these kinds of supply to private firms for guard purposes.
The company of James Wooley and William Sargent seem to have paired using that name in several date periods; 1815-17, 1821-25 and 1826-31, all at 74 Edmund st. It seems that other partners came and went with them in these periods, but arms marked Wooley & Sargent would be in the periods noted.

Apparently there was another variant of this hilt with a kind of added bar to the guard, same ribbed grip to the Medical Staff Corps as Pattern 1861.
These kinds of swords were similar to Coast Guard types, and again to infantry drummers 1822-1856 (Robson, 1975, p.163).

It seems that when the infantry drummers got a new type sword pattern in 1856, the existing swords became surplus and were then given to the medical corps.

It would appear that much of the conundrum with these distinctly recognizable iron rib grip, brass hilt swords is that they seem to be rather 'off reckoning' types outside regulation patterns which were present over decades from early years of 19th c. Their presence within military corps and special units as well as maritime as well as private and civil services renders them pretty hard to classify specifically.

I suppose in many, if not most cases, it will suffice to place them in the 'of the type' category when aligning them with discussion of certain of the many contexts they have been associated with.

[werecow]

It seems somewhat odd that maritime users in particular would choose a rust-prone steel grip as opposed to brass, particularly since the guard is brass. Was that a matter of cost, taste, or something else?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by werecow

It seems somewhat odd that maritime users in particular would choose a rust-prone steel grip as opposed to brass, particularly since the guard is brass. Was that a matter of cost, taste, or something else?

It was easy to make, cheap and heavily japanned (painted black). Brass was of course also easy to cast and even more durable as far as rusting issues.

[M ELEY]

It seems somewhat odd that maritime users in particular would choose a rust-prone steel grip as opposed to brass, particularly since the guard is brass. Was that a matter of cost, taste, or something else?
Today 07:31 AM

As Jim pointed out, these types of corrugated/ribbed iron grips (found on a multitude of cutlasses of the period (m1804s and others) were japanned/painted with black primer.

As Jim pointed out, these swords seem to have made the rounds! In Annis' 'Naval Swords', we see that East India Dock Co sword with the corrugated iron grip just like these other examples. It makes sense that these para-military type swords would have appealed to the maritime market (i.e. private purchase), as they were cheap to make and simple in their construction. I wouldn't mind adding one to my collection if it at least had a tentative possible use of being naval (as the example I listed above, with the straight-bladed m1804 blade).

Radboud, thanks for posting that weapons locker. That was indeed the one shown in Gilkerson's volume.