Pommel Ring on British Dragoon Swords 18th c.

Jim McDougall · 13th December 2022, 04:02 AM

Thank you Will, this publication was one of my favorites, and Jim Gooding, the publisher, was a great guy. Sadly after he was gone, it ended. The issues are virtually treasure.
This is an excellent example, and again the 'pommel ring' clearly seen.
Interesting is the typical straight blade with this single back fuller typical of the period and it seems turned up on most forms of hangers, cutlasses and of course these basket hilts.
The fluer de lis is seen on many blades of this type (as found on some of the blades from the terrible Twickenham fence with Culloden blades) and from late 1730s-40s.

This is my example of a dragoon of that period, with fluer de lis, but in this case the guard attached in the 'Scottish' manner rather than pommel ring, which of course shows that one method was not exclusive to these sword variations.

Will M · 13th December 2022, 03:49 PM

Jim that is a nice earlier sword and has never been disassembled. I find too many unknowns are in swords with recent disassembly.

Jim McDougall · 13th December 2022, 05:33 PM

Thank you so much Will. Actually when I got it (back in the70s) I was putting together a group of Scottish basket hilts. This one was a puzzle to me with shorter blade, shields were plain, no piercings etc.and then, I had no idea on it. In later years of course I was delighted to find out more !

Will M · 13th December 2022, 05:43 PM

Jim I wish I had interest in the 70's with swords. The internet has changed much for good and bad. Much information you can easily find now without travelling to the UK. Information has also increased the value of may swords by placing provenance to them. Aslo more interest in collecting today with more collectors and the same amount of antique items. I used to get lucky buying swords at auction that had poor description and bad photos. Now all eyes are on them. Recently I've had more luck at militaria shows in Ontario but the quantity and selection is not nearly what the UK has.
Most collecting here begins around the War of 1812 and onward.

Norman McCormick · 13th December 2022, 05:49 PM

Hi,
As an aside, if anybody is interested in the Flour de Lys stamp on the blade Will posted No 25 and the one Jim posted No 26 this discussion may be of interest.
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=fleur

Regards,
Norman

Will M · 13th December 2022, 06:18 PM

On the Culloden Antiques site has a nice Grenadiers with the fleur de lis http://www.cullodenantiques.com/page...d-weapons.html

13th December 2022, 04:02 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Thank you Will, this publication was one of my favorites, and Jim Gooding, the publisher, was a great guy. Sadly after he was gone, it ended. The issues are virtually treasure. This is an excellent example, and again the 'pommel ring' clearly seen. Interesting is the typical straight blade with this single back fuller typical of the period and it seems turned up on most forms of hangers, cutlasses and of course these basket hilts. The fluer de lis is seen on many blades of this type (as found on some of the blades from the terrible Twickenham fence with Culloden blades) and from late 1730s-40s. This is my example of a dragoon of that period, with fluer de lis, but in this case the guard attached in the 'Scottish' manner rather than pommel ring, which of course shows that one method was not exclusive to these sword variations. Attached Images

13th December 2022, 03:49 PM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 394	Jim that is a nice earlier sword and has never been disassembled. I find too many unknowns are in swords with recent disassembly.

13th December 2022, 05:33 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Thank you so much Will. Actually when I got it (back in the70s) I was putting together a group of Scottish basket hilts. This one was a puzzle to me with shorter blade, shields were plain, no piercings etc.and then, I had no idea on it. In later years of course I was delighted to find out more !

13th December 2022, 05:43 PM	#4
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 394	Jim I wish I had interest in the 70's with swords. The internet has changed much for good and bad. Much information you can easily find now without travelling to the UK. Information has also increased the value of may swords by placing provenance to them. Aslo more interest in collecting today with more collectors and the same amount of antique items. I used to get lucky buying swords at auction that had poor description and bad photos. Now all eyes are on them. Recently I've had more luck at militaria shows in Ontario but the quantity and selection is not nearly what the UK has. Most collecting here begins around the War of 1812 and onward.

13th December 2022, 05:49 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi, As an aside, if anybody is interested in the Flour de Lys stamp on the blade Will posted No 25 and the one Jim posted No 26 this discussion may be of interest. http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=fleur Regards, Norman

13th December 2022, 06:18 PM	#6
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 394	On the Culloden Antiques site has a nice Grenadiers with the fleur de lis http://www.cullodenantiques.com/page...d-weapons.html