Arabic....North African curved dagger...comments / help

VANDOO · 18th June 2006, 04:37 PM

PERHAPS THEY WERE MADE AS THEY ARE TO MAKE THEM LESS OF A KILLING WEAPON BUT STILL FUNCTIONAL JUST IN CASE TROUBLE STARTED, A MAN FELT NAKED WITHOUT A WEAPON IN THOSE DAYS. IN A GATHERING OR CEREMONY OR IN THE PRESENCE OF ROYALTY OR HIGH RANKING PEOPLE THOSE ATTENDING WERE OFTEN ALLOWED A CERTIAN TYPE OF KNIFE OR SWORD. THIS IS COMMON IN MANY DIFFERENT SOCIETYS AROUND THE WORLD ,SOME OF THE COURT SWORDS FOR INSTANCE OR THE WEDUNG IN INDONESIAN COURTS. THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS AS MOST OF WHAT I HAVE READ OR HEARD OVER THE YEARS ASSOCIATED THESE KNIVES WITH SPECIAL CEREMONY AND NOT OPEN WARFARE. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE ORNAMENTAL AND NICE TO LOOK AT AND NO DOUBT THE WAY THEY ARE DECORATED HAS SOME SIGNIFICENCE WHICH IS PROBABLY LOST IN TODAYS SOCIETY. SO IN A GATHERING OF MEN IF A FIGHT STARTED THERE MIGHT BE SOME BLOOD BUT MOST LIKELY NO DEATH AND THE GAURDS COULD EASILY STOP A FIGHT AS THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY ONES WITH REAL FIGHTING WEAPONS. I DO CONSIDER THEM A CEREMONIAL WEAPON AND DEFINITELY ETHINOGRAPHIC AND NEAT TO LOOK AT SO THEREFORE COLLECTABLE. CONJECTURE MY SPECIALTY

katana · 19th June 2006, 01:40 PM

If 2mm thick blades are common to 'Wedding Nimcha's', and as a ceremonial dagger it's function is to look good, show status etc. Why has mine got a functional blade.
Pure speculation, could it have been made to look like a ceremonial piece, so that a 'live' blade could be sneaked into a Ceremonial environment, perhaps the 'bridegroom' to be, had issues with his new in-laws....

It's a shame that the knife on Oriental Arms does not describe the thickness of the blade, however looking through the additional photos, the knives look almost identical. IMHO the carving and finish of the handle is not as good as mine, and there are slight differences in its shape. The blade looks to be inferior too, but that could be the photograph........or is it because I am bias ....

Rick · 19th June 2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

If 2mm thick blades are common to 'Wedding Nimcha's', and as a ceremonial dagger it's function is to look good, show status etc. Why has mine got a functional blade.
Pure speculation, could it have been made to look like a ceremonial piece, so that a 'live' blade could be sneaked into a Ceremonial environment, perhaps the 'bridegroom' to be, had issues with his new in-laws....

It's a shame that the knife on Oriental Arms does not describe the thickness of the blade, however looking through the additional photos, the knives look almost identical. IMHO the carving and finish of the handle is not as good as mine, and there are slight differences in its shape. The blade looks to be inferior too, but that could be the photograph........or is it because I am bias ....

Katana , I believe Barry hit the nail on the head in his post that preceeds yours .
The carving is quite simple to do and is referred to as 'chip carving' ; it goes quite quickly . Even 3 mm is less than an eighth of an inch ; pretty standard for these pieces ; mine was that thick also .

You certainly do not need to accept anyones evaluation of this piece however ; and I do give you kudos for your imagination .

VANDOO · 19th June 2006, 04:26 PM

I THINK THE THICKNESS OF THE BLADE AND QUALITY OF THE CARVEING ARE MORE OF A INDICATION OF AGE THAN FUNCTION. THE MORE RECENT MADE ONES ARE MADE MORE QUICKLEY AND LESS EXPENSIVE, SO THINNER BLADES AND PLASTIC RATHER THAN CORAL OR REAL STONES WOULD COST LESS. THE BLADES ON WEDUNGS AND COURT SWORDS ARE HEAVY ENOUGH AND COULD INFLICT HARM BUT THE DESIGN IS NOT VERY GOOD FOR FIGHTING COMPARED TO WEAPONS THAT ARE DESIGNED EFFECIENTLY FOR WAR. LOOK AT THE OTHER SWORDS AND DAGGERS FROM THE AREA FOR COMPARASON, AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD CHOOSE TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM SOMEONE WELL ARMED.

AS THERE IS NO CONCRETE INFORMATION ON THESE DAGGERS ONE CAN THINK WHAT ONE WANTS. EITHER WAY I STILL LIKE THEM AS A COLLECTABLE AS THEY ARE AN AUTHENTIC ARTEFACT OF THE CULTURE NOT JUST SOMETHING INVENTED TO SELL TO TOURISTS.

katana · 19th June 2006, 04:52 PM

Thanks everyone for your input.....I suspect one of these daggers will, again, be posted for comments in the future.

I suppose, to sum up, it is likely to be a quality Nimcha type dagger from the Algiers ( Ref; Oriental Arms) and probably ceremonial in nature, with a 'useable' blade.

It is a nice knife, hopefully new information will help decide how these knives should be catergorised and labelled but, until then I think the description above will have to suffice...

katana · 7th August 2006, 09:42 PM

This Nimcha (wedding?) has just finished on eBay.....e-mailed seller...the blade was 4mm and very similar to the one I own..but has an less acute curve..tried a late bid ..but missed out. It seems there are more Nimcha 'daggers' with useable blades

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

18th June 2006, 04:37 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS THEY WERE MADE AS THEY ARE TO MAKE THEM LESS OF A KILLING WEAPON BUT STILL FUNCTIONAL JUST IN CASE TROUBLE STARTED, A MAN FELT NAKED WITHOUT A WEAPON IN THOSE DAYS. IN A GATHERING OR CEREMONY OR IN THE PRESENCE OF ROYALTY OR HIGH RANKING PEOPLE THOSE ATTENDING WERE OFTEN ALLOWED A CERTIAN TYPE OF KNIFE OR SWORD. THIS IS COMMON IN MANY DIFFERENT SOCIETYS AROUND THE WORLD ,SOME OF THE COURT SWORDS FOR INSTANCE OR THE WEDUNG IN INDONESIAN COURTS. THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS AS MOST OF WHAT I HAVE READ OR HEARD OVER THE YEARS ASSOCIATED THESE KNIVES WITH SPECIAL CEREMONY AND NOT OPEN WARFARE. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE ORNAMENTAL AND NICE TO LOOK AT AND NO DOUBT THE WAY THEY ARE DECORATED HAS SOME SIGNIFICENCE WHICH IS PROBABLY LOST IN TODAYS SOCIETY. SO IN A GATHERING OF MEN IF A FIGHT STARTED THERE MIGHT BE SOME BLOOD BUT MOST LIKELY NO DEATH AND THE GAURDS COULD EASILY STOP A FIGHT AS THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY ONES WITH REAL FIGHTING WEAPONS. I DO CONSIDER THEM A CEREMONIAL WEAPON AND DEFINITELY ETHINOGRAPHIC AND NEAT TO LOOK AT SO THEREFORE COLLECTABLE. CONJECTURE MY SPECIALTY

19th June 2006, 01:40 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	If 2mm thick blades are common to 'Wedding Nimcha's', and as a ceremonial dagger it's function is to look good, show status etc. Why has mine got a functional blade. Pure speculation, could it have been made to look like a ceremonial piece, so that a 'live' blade could be sneaked into a Ceremonial environment, perhaps the 'bridegroom' to be, had issues with his new in-laws.... It's a shame that the knife on Oriental Arms does not describe the thickness of the blade, however looking through the additional photos, the knives look almost identical. IMHO the carving and finish of the handle is not as good as mine, and there are slight differences in its shape. The blade looks to be inferior too, but that could be the photograph........or is it because I am bias ....

19th June 2006, 04:26 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I THINK THE THICKNESS OF THE BLADE AND QUALITY OF THE CARVEING ARE MORE OF A INDICATION OF AGE THAN FUNCTION. THE MORE RECENT MADE ONES ARE MADE MORE QUICKLEY AND LESS EXPENSIVE, SO THINNER BLADES AND PLASTIC RATHER THAN CORAL OR REAL STONES WOULD COST LESS. THE BLADES ON WEDUNGS AND COURT SWORDS ARE HEAVY ENOUGH AND COULD INFLICT HARM BUT THE DESIGN IS NOT VERY GOOD FOR FIGHTING COMPARED TO WEAPONS THAT ARE DESIGNED EFFECIENTLY FOR WAR. LOOK AT THE OTHER SWORDS AND DAGGERS FROM THE AREA FOR COMPARASON, AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD CHOOSE TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM SOMEONE WELL ARMED. AS THERE IS NO CONCRETE INFORMATION ON THESE DAGGERS ONE CAN THINK WHAT ONE WANTS. EITHER WAY I STILL LIKE THEM AS A COLLECTABLE AS THEY ARE AN AUTHENTIC ARTEFACT OF THE CULTURE NOT JUST SOMETHING INVENTED TO SELL TO TOURISTS.

19th June 2006, 04:52 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks everyone for your input.....I suspect one of these daggers will, again, be posted for comments in the future. I suppose, to sum up, it is likely to be a quality Nimcha type dagger from the Algiers ( Ref; Oriental Arms) and probably ceremonial in nature, with a 'useable' blade. It is a nice knife, hopefully new information will help decide how these knives should be catergorised and labelled but, until then I think the description above will have to suffice...

7th August 2006, 09:42 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	This Nimcha (wedding?) has just finished on eBay.....e-mailed seller...the blade was 4mm and very similar to the one I own..but has an less acute curve..tried a late bid ..but missed out. It seems there are more Nimcha 'daggers' with useable blades http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1