Rare folding knives for your enjoyment

fernando · 17th November 2022, 01:29 PM

It is visible that what i said in my post #6 that Portuguese navalhas didn't have the ratchet system, is nonsense; you just have to look at the example i posted in my very first sample. And now just to reassure it, here are excerpts of a work written by Alberto Pimentel in 1904, where the scenario in context let us know what it was about. See how the beg. XIX century Lisbon ruffians behaved, their 'tools' being the Fado guitar and the Santo Christo, the large pointed navalha with the 'triple theeth on the spring', which they hid in the short jacket sleeve.

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Chris Evans · 17th November 2022, 01:42 PM

Hi Fernando,

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

It is visible that what i said in my post #6 that Portuguese navalhas didn't have the ratchet system, is nonsense; you just have to look at the example i posted in my very first sample. And now just to reassure it, here are excerpts of a work written by Alberto Pimentel in 1904, where the scenario in context let us know what it was about. See how the beg. XIX century Lisbon ruffians behaved, their 'tools' being the Fado guitar and the Santo Christo, the large pointed navalha with the 'triple theeth on the spring', which they hid in the short jacket sleeve.

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Thanks for this post, seems like the customs of the rougher gentry were not all that dissimilar from that of Spain.

Cheers
Chris

fernando · 17th November 2022, 01:45 PM

It is only natural;we are neighbors ... stumble upon each other

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fernando · 17th November 2022, 01:50 PM

Only that the country Spaniards carried in their sash and the Lisbon scoundrels hid in the sleeve; differences to note.

Interested Party · 17th November 2022, 03:39 PM

I have a series of questions as always.

I've always wanted to know if there is an advantage to the ratcheting system? Does it serve as a backup lock in case the blade is bumped out of the main notch (caja [esp]) that locks the blade in the open position?

To complicate matters and begin to relieve my confusion the first example of post #1 would have a spring (molla [it.], muelle [esp], mola [port]) that Medrano in "Navaja antigua" p62 caption 2.3 of a Salvatici illustration in Italian describes as "molla fissa a finestra e tallone a tre scrocchi" other captions describe similar lock releases to post #1 as having a ring (cierre de anilla [esp]. Fernando's source in post #24 calls the spring system a "triplice de calço na mola." So when we describe these knives, we use a terminology of spring system combined with lock release system?

Finally, does anyone have any recommendations for books on folding knives in Spanish and Portuguese that provide a good foundation for the discussions we are having? I wouldn't mind titles of books on fixed blades as well

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

fernando · 17th November 2022, 04:21 PM

I guess part of the answer is determined by comprehending the different namings; technical, popular, romantic.
I will try and clear it with a couple drawings ... hoping not to increase the confusion

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Interested Party · 17th November 2022, 07:45 PM

Thanks Fernando. From what I can tell the locking systems in Spanish are cerre de anilla if there is a ring. Cierre de golpe if it doesn't have one but the spring is released at the top of the hilt. If no lock but a back spring is present cierre de muelle, no spring no lock cierre de pulgar. A lockblade would be cierre de fieles. I don't know what a lock back would be or if the system was used in the southern Mediterranean region in the 18th and 19th centuries. Where would I find the terms in Portuguese?

So, to be clear; the ratchets are only for the sound?

17th November 2022, 01:29 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It is visible that what i said in my post #6 that Portuguese navalhas didn't have the ratchet system, is nonsense; you just have to look at the example i posted in my very first sample. And now just to reassure it, here are excerpts of a work written by Alberto Pimentel in 1904, where the scenario in context let us know what it was about. See how the beg. XIX century Lisbon ruffians behaved, their 'tools' being the Fado guitar and the Santo Christo, the large pointed navalha with the 'triple theeth on the spring', which they hid in the short jacket sleeve. . Attached Images

17th November 2022, 01:45 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It is only natural;we are neighbors ... stumble upon each other .

17th November 2022, 01:50 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Only that the country Spaniards carried in their sash and the Lisbon scoundrels hid in the sleeve; differences to note.

17th November 2022, 03:39 PM	#5
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 490	I have a series of questions as always. I've always wanted to know if there is an advantage to the ratcheting system? Does it serve as a backup lock in case the blade is bumped out of the main notch (caja [esp]) that locks the blade in the open position? To complicate matters and begin to relieve my confusion the first example of post #1 would have a spring (molla [it.], muelle [esp], mola [port]) that Medrano in "Navaja antigua" p62 caption 2.3 of a Salvatici illustration in Italian describes as "molla fissa a finestra e tallone a tre scrocchi" other captions describe similar lock releases to post #1 as having a ring (cierre de anilla [esp]. Fernando's source in post #24 calls the spring system a "triplice de calço na mola." So when we describe these knives, we use a terminology of spring system combined with lock release system? Finally, does anyone have any recommendations for books on folding knives in Spanish and Portuguese that provide a good foundation for the discussions we are having? I wouldn't mind titles of books on fixed blades as well Thanks in advance for any advice given.

17th November 2022, 04:21 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I guess part of the answer is determined by comprehending the different namings; technical, popular, romantic. I will try and clear it with a couple drawings ... hoping not to increase the confusion . . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 17th November 2022 at 04:33 PM.

17th November 2022, 07:45 PM	#7
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 490	Thanks Fernando. From what I can tell the locking systems in Spanish are cerre de anilla if there is a ring. Cierre de golpe if it doesn't have one but the spring is released at the top of the hilt. If no lock but a back spring is present cierre de muelle, no spring no lock cierre de pulgar. A lockblade would be cierre de fieles. I don't know what a lock back would be or if the system was used in the southern Mediterranean region in the 18th and 19th centuries. Where would I find the terms in Portuguese? So, to be clear; the ratchets are only for the sound?