The m1804 British naval cutlass

[M ELEY]

Excellent example, Wayne! It seems that either the GR or the broad arrow were the preferred BOE marks. Thank you also for that information on the sword knot slot. I always felt it was rather redundant as well. These cutlass are so heavy, I think if one slipped from your fingers during a swing and you were tethered to the beast, you'd either break your wrist or be flung in the current dirrection it was headed! Could the partial name be Hadley? He was one of the suppliers, from what I understand.

[CutlassCollector]

Great post Mark, good to see cutlasses.
These are my three. The top one is a Harvey marked on the spine and the second Thomas Craven marked on the blade. The third is the Norwegian/Swedish almost exact copy - a little later 1810.

What always surprised me about the 1804 is that although it was heavier and longer than many other cutlasses it still feels good in the hand. Well balanced and 'light'.

[M ELEY]

Hello CC and great to hear from you! Thanks for posting these and it is great to see the subtle differenes to the pieces based on each maker. They are not all 'cookie cutter', as some would surmize. I had quite forgotten about the the Swedish varient of the m1804! Do we know how these were contracted out? As they still fell into the time period of Fighting Sail, did England purposely stock them to help protect Swedish shipping from Napoleonic privateers? I've seen the Swedish crown marking and, I believe, some with the king's initials? CR or ??? My memory is a little lax right now-

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... Could the partial name be Hadley? ...

Could be. I had a brain fart that maybe it was M Eley . Could be Woolley too.


p.s. - tethering yourself to a lump of steel when you might fall in the big briney, especially for a paniced sailor who probably can't swim, is not recommended. I do note the 'knot' I have does knot have a slider knot to 'lock' it to your wrist like a sword knot usually does.

[M ELEY]

p.s. - tethering yourself to a lump of steel when you might fall in the big briney, especially for a paniced sailor who probably can't swim, is not recommended. I do note the 'knot' I have does knot have a slider knot to 'lock' it to your wrist like a sword knot usually does.

Gotcha 100%!!

[Jim McDougall]

The lanyard, sword knot thing with these is most interesting. Wayne makes a good point about not having these tethered to ones arm when possible fall into water loomed. The thing with cavalry sabers is more pragmatic as being on a fast moving horse and losing your weapon would be disastrous in a melee.

The idea of the blood, sweat, moisture issues compromising hold is surely viable given the potential of those factors being present, whether the frequency was regularly seen or not.

What I have found interesting in reading more on these is that it seems there were numerous cases of these being captured, or otherwise acquired by American naval vessels. It was interesting to note a hole drilled in the forward section of the main guard disc, said to be done by sailors for the very reason of holding the cutlass securely as discussed.
Yet, these already have the aperture at the top of the knuckleguard section near the pommel, so it would seem redundant.

Thank you CC for adding these examples, and I have wondered just how many makers were supplying these in these early years, now I can see Harvey added to the list along with Craven et al. It is puzzling to me that some have the marking J.Gill. As far as have known J. Gill was marked using the letter seen now as 'I' in place of J in alphabets of the period. I have a M1796 heavy cavalry by Gill marked I Gill (=John) from 1814.

[toaster5sqn]

Jim, I've tried to make sense out of the I Gill, J Gill, T Gill situation with regard to dating an 1851 pattern hanger and I came away more confused than when I started, The original Gill was a file cutler and I can't even find agreement on when the family added swords to their product list.
If anyone knows a good source I'm all ears.

Robert

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by toaster5sqn

Jim, I've tried to make sense out of the I Gill, J Gill, T Gill situation with regard to dating an 1851 pattern hanger and I came away more confused than when I started, The original Gill was a file cutler and I can't even find agreement on when the family added swords to their product list.
If anyone knows a good source I'm all ears.

Robert

Morning Robert, Steve Langham has done a lot of research on British cutlers and maintains an excellent online database:

'Gill Cutlers'

If you click on the I in the corner Steve lists his sources

So from Steve's research, the earliest evidence we have is that Thomas Gill Snr advertised himself as a maker of swords (plus more) in 1788