Arabic....North African curved dagger...comments / help

Tim Simmons · 17th June 2006, 05:25 PM

With a 4mm spine it sounds very functional. A great many of these are not very nice and people are put off, well done you for picking a good one. I think my flissa has very similar patterns on the scabbard.

katana · 17th June 2006, 05:32 PM

Thanks Tim, I am really pleased with it.

The carving is of good quality too.
It seems to have a nice balance between ornateness (if theres such a word) and functionality.

katana · 18th June 2006, 01:40 PM

Now I've a problem, it's not a bazaar knife or a 'wedding Nimcha'. Its functional and well made, it has age .......so what is it

It can't be unique, has anyone any ideas as to origin, now the functionality of this knife is confirmed....please

Rick · 18th June 2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Now I've a problem, it's not a bazaar knife or a 'wedding Nimcha'. Its functional and well made, it has age .......so what is it

It can't be unique, has anyone any ideas as to origin, now the functionality of this knife is confirmed....please

No disrespect intended ; but where and by what method did we rule out that this is not a well made example of either of the above qouted ? I'm sure that pieces like this came in many levels of quality .

All that I've read above are opinions .

It is after all possible to kill a man with a steak knife but that does make said item a functional weapon .

/Playing the Devil's advocate .

katana · 18th June 2006, 03:32 PM

I see your point, but the blade is still relatively sharp, with no evidence of recent sharpening, it is very sturdy and feels very functional. The history given to me was that this was indeed a weapon brought back from WW1. The curve of the blade is less acute than the wedding Nimcha posted, making it more effective as a slashing type blade. The area mid way along the blade is the sharpist... again pointing to its ability to 'slash'.
The carving on the handle is very good quality, and improves the 'grip' considerably without being too ornate. The guard in the photos look thin and weak. However this is not the case, I have tried to bend it

and found it to be very strong and would certainly protect the hand.

Why make a ceremonial knife with a functional blade.... surely ceremonial or ritual weapons are representations ......

VANDOO · 18th June 2006, 04:37 PM

PERHAPS THEY WERE MADE AS THEY ARE TO MAKE THEM LESS OF A KILLING WEAPON BUT STILL FUNCTIONAL JUST IN CASE TROUBLE STARTED, A MAN FELT NAKED WITHOUT A WEAPON IN THOSE DAYS. IN A GATHERING OR CEREMONY OR IN THE PRESENCE OF ROYALTY OR HIGH RANKING PEOPLE THOSE ATTENDING WERE OFTEN ALLOWED A CERTIAN TYPE OF KNIFE OR SWORD. THIS IS COMMON IN MANY DIFFERENT SOCIETYS AROUND THE WORLD ,SOME OF THE COURT SWORDS FOR INSTANCE OR THE WEDUNG IN INDONESIAN COURTS. THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS AS MOST OF WHAT I HAVE READ OR HEARD OVER THE YEARS ASSOCIATED THESE KNIVES WITH SPECIAL CEREMONY AND NOT OPEN WARFARE. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE ORNAMENTAL AND NICE TO LOOK AT AND NO DOUBT THE WAY THEY ARE DECORATED HAS SOME SIGNIFICENCE WHICH IS PROBABLY LOST IN TODAYS SOCIETY. SO IN A GATHERING OF MEN IF A FIGHT STARTED THERE MIGHT BE SOME BLOOD BUT MOST LIKELY NO DEATH AND THE GAURDS COULD EASILY STOP A FIGHT AS THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY ONES WITH REAL FIGHTING WEAPONS. I DO CONSIDER THEM A CEREMONIAL WEAPON AND DEFINITELY ETHINOGRAPHIC AND NEAT TO LOOK AT SO THEREFORE COLLECTABLE. CONJECTURE MY SPECIALTY

katana · 19th June 2006, 01:40 PM

If 2mm thick blades are common to 'Wedding Nimcha's', and as a ceremonial dagger it's function is to look good, show status etc. Why has mine got a functional blade.
Pure speculation, could it have been made to look like a ceremonial piece, so that a 'live' blade could be sneaked into a Ceremonial environment, perhaps the 'bridegroom' to be, had issues with his new in-laws....

It's a shame that the knife on Oriental Arms does not describe the thickness of the blade, however looking through the additional photos, the knives look almost identical. IMHO the carving and finish of the handle is not as good as mine, and there are slight differences in its shape. The blade looks to be inferior too, but that could be the photograph........or is it because I am bias ....

17th June 2006, 05:25 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	With a 4mm spine it sounds very functional. A great many of these are not very nice and people are put off, well done you for picking a good one. I think my flissa has very similar patterns on the scabbard.

17th June 2006, 05:32 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Tim, I am really pleased with it. The carving is of good quality too. It seems to have a nice balance between ornateness (if theres such a word) and functionality.

18th June 2006, 01:40 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Now I've a problem, it's not a bazaar knife or a 'wedding Nimcha'. Its functional and well made, it has age .......so what is it It can't be unique, has anyone any ideas as to origin, now the functionality of this knife is confirmed....please

18th June 2006, 03:32 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I see your point, but the blade is still relatively sharp, with no evidence of recent sharpening, it is very sturdy and feels very functional. The history given to me was that this was indeed a weapon brought back from WW1. The curve of the blade is less acute than the wedding Nimcha posted, making it more effective as a slashing type blade. The area mid way along the blade is the sharpist... again pointing to its ability to 'slash'. The carving on the handle is very good quality, and improves the 'grip' considerably without being too ornate. The guard in the photos look thin and weak. However this is not the case, I have tried to bend it and found it to be very strong and would certainly protect the hand. Why make a ceremonial knife with a functional blade.... surely ceremonial or ritual weapons are representations ......

18th June 2006, 04:37 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS THEY WERE MADE AS THEY ARE TO MAKE THEM LESS OF A KILLING WEAPON BUT STILL FUNCTIONAL JUST IN CASE TROUBLE STARTED, A MAN FELT NAKED WITHOUT A WEAPON IN THOSE DAYS. IN A GATHERING OR CEREMONY OR IN THE PRESENCE OF ROYALTY OR HIGH RANKING PEOPLE THOSE ATTENDING WERE OFTEN ALLOWED A CERTIAN TYPE OF KNIFE OR SWORD. THIS IS COMMON IN MANY DIFFERENT SOCIETYS AROUND THE WORLD ,SOME OF THE COURT SWORDS FOR INSTANCE OR THE WEDUNG IN INDONESIAN COURTS. THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS AS MOST OF WHAT I HAVE READ OR HEARD OVER THE YEARS ASSOCIATED THESE KNIVES WITH SPECIAL CEREMONY AND NOT OPEN WARFARE. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE ORNAMENTAL AND NICE TO LOOK AT AND NO DOUBT THE WAY THEY ARE DECORATED HAS SOME SIGNIFICENCE WHICH IS PROBABLY LOST IN TODAYS SOCIETY. SO IN A GATHERING OF MEN IF A FIGHT STARTED THERE MIGHT BE SOME BLOOD BUT MOST LIKELY NO DEATH AND THE GAURDS COULD EASILY STOP A FIGHT AS THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY ONES WITH REAL FIGHTING WEAPONS. I DO CONSIDER THEM A CEREMONIAL WEAPON AND DEFINITELY ETHINOGRAPHIC AND NEAT TO LOOK AT SO THEREFORE COLLECTABLE. CONJECTURE MY SPECIALTY

19th June 2006, 01:40 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	If 2mm thick blades are common to 'Wedding Nimcha's', and as a ceremonial dagger it's function is to look good, show status etc. Why has mine got a functional blade. Pure speculation, could it have been made to look like a ceremonial piece, so that a 'live' blade could be sneaked into a Ceremonial environment, perhaps the 'bridegroom' to be, had issues with his new in-laws.... It's a shame that the knife on Oriental Arms does not describe the thickness of the blade, however looking through the additional photos, the knives look almost identical. IMHO the carving and finish of the handle is not as good as mine, and there are slight differences in its shape. The blade looks to be inferior too, but that could be the photograph........or is it because I am bias ....