Arabic....North African curved dagger...comments / help

katana · 17th June 2006, 11:59 AM

Dagger arrived today, and I'm very pleased with it. The blade's spine is indeed 4mm and distally tapers to 1.5 mm. The blade is relatively sharp, noticeably more so on the apex of the curve. It suggests that it could be used with a 'slashing' type strike or with a stabbing action. The blade had some sort of green waxy material on it which was easily cleaned off to expose a very clean, shiny blade.
The handle is hand carved with thin inlays of metal which emphasize the carved pattern. Wear patina on the handle suggests use. The guard is not flimsy or springy and would definately give good protection.
The dagger handles well , in a stabbing or slashing action.
The brass work has alot of oxidation, very dark in some areas.

IMHO this is a fully functioning weapon, I can only assume that this is not a 'Wedding Nimcha'............

.......therefore.. it must be a 'Divorce Nimcha'......you could certainly cut all ties with this......

Any ideas or comments, please gentlemen

Tim Simmons · 17th June 2006, 05:25 PM

With a 4mm spine it sounds very functional. A great many of these are not very nice and people are put off, well done you for picking a good one. I think my flissa has very similar patterns on the scabbard.

katana · 17th June 2006, 05:32 PM

Thanks Tim, I am really pleased with it.

The carving is of good quality too.
It seems to have a nice balance between ornateness (if theres such a word) and functionality.

katana · 18th June 2006, 01:40 PM

Now I've a problem, it's not a bazaar knife or a 'wedding Nimcha'. Its functional and well made, it has age .......so what is it

It can't be unique, has anyone any ideas as to origin, now the functionality of this knife is confirmed....please

Rick · 18th June 2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Now I've a problem, it's not a bazaar knife or a 'wedding Nimcha'. Its functional and well made, it has age .......so what is it

It can't be unique, has anyone any ideas as to origin, now the functionality of this knife is confirmed....please

No disrespect intended ; but where and by what method did we rule out that this is not a well made example of either of the above qouted ? I'm sure that pieces like this came in many levels of quality .

All that I've read above are opinions .

It is after all possible to kill a man with a steak knife but that does make said item a functional weapon .

/Playing the Devil's advocate .

katana · 18th June 2006, 03:32 PM

I see your point, but the blade is still relatively sharp, with no evidence of recent sharpening, it is very sturdy and feels very functional. The history given to me was that this was indeed a weapon brought back from WW1. The curve of the blade is less acute than the wedding Nimcha posted, making it more effective as a slashing type blade. The area mid way along the blade is the sharpist... again pointing to its ability to 'slash'.
The carving on the handle is very good quality, and improves the 'grip' considerably without being too ornate. The guard in the photos look thin and weak. However this is not the case, I have tried to bend it

and found it to be very strong and would certainly protect the hand.

Why make a ceremonial knife with a functional blade.... surely ceremonial or ritual weapons are representations ......

VANDOO · 18th June 2006, 04:37 PM

PERHAPS THEY WERE MADE AS THEY ARE TO MAKE THEM LESS OF A KILLING WEAPON BUT STILL FUNCTIONAL JUST IN CASE TROUBLE STARTED, A MAN FELT NAKED WITHOUT A WEAPON IN THOSE DAYS. IN A GATHERING OR CEREMONY OR IN THE PRESENCE OF ROYALTY OR HIGH RANKING PEOPLE THOSE ATTENDING WERE OFTEN ALLOWED A CERTIAN TYPE OF KNIFE OR SWORD. THIS IS COMMON IN MANY DIFFERENT SOCIETYS AROUND THE WORLD ,SOME OF THE COURT SWORDS FOR INSTANCE OR THE WEDUNG IN INDONESIAN COURTS. THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS AS MOST OF WHAT I HAVE READ OR HEARD OVER THE YEARS ASSOCIATED THESE KNIVES WITH SPECIAL CEREMONY AND NOT OPEN WARFARE. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE ORNAMENTAL AND NICE TO LOOK AT AND NO DOUBT THE WAY THEY ARE DECORATED HAS SOME SIGNIFICENCE WHICH IS PROBABLY LOST IN TODAYS SOCIETY. SO IN A GATHERING OF MEN IF A FIGHT STARTED THERE MIGHT BE SOME BLOOD BUT MOST LIKELY NO DEATH AND THE GAURDS COULD EASILY STOP A FIGHT AS THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY ONES WITH REAL FIGHTING WEAPONS. I DO CONSIDER THEM A CEREMONIAL WEAPON AND DEFINITELY ETHINOGRAPHIC AND NEAT TO LOOK AT SO THEREFORE COLLECTABLE. CONJECTURE MY SPECIALTY

17th June 2006, 11:59 AM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Dagger arrived today, and I'm very pleased with it. The blade's spine is indeed 4mm and distally tapers to 1.5 mm. The blade is relatively sharp, noticeably more so on the apex of the curve. It suggests that it could be used with a 'slashing' type strike or with a stabbing action. The blade had some sort of green waxy material on it which was easily cleaned off to expose a very clean, shiny blade. The handle is hand carved with thin inlays of metal which emphasize the carved pattern. Wear patina on the handle suggests use. The guard is not flimsy or springy and would definately give good protection. The dagger handles well , in a stabbing or slashing action. The brass work has alot of oxidation, very dark in some areas. IMHO this is a fully functioning weapon, I can only assume that this is not a 'Wedding Nimcha'............ .......therefore.. it must be a 'Divorce Nimcha'......you could certainly cut all ties with this...... Any ideas or comments, please gentlemen

17th June 2006, 05:25 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	With a 4mm spine it sounds very functional. A great many of these are not very nice and people are put off, well done you for picking a good one. I think my flissa has very similar patterns on the scabbard.

17th June 2006, 05:32 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Tim, I am really pleased with it. The carving is of good quality too. It seems to have a nice balance between ornateness (if theres such a word) and functionality.

18th June 2006, 01:40 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Now I've a problem, it's not a bazaar knife or a 'wedding Nimcha'. Its functional and well made, it has age .......so what is it It can't be unique, has anyone any ideas as to origin, now the functionality of this knife is confirmed....please

18th June 2006, 03:32 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I see your point, but the blade is still relatively sharp, with no evidence of recent sharpening, it is very sturdy and feels very functional. The history given to me was that this was indeed a weapon brought back from WW1. The curve of the blade is less acute than the wedding Nimcha posted, making it more effective as a slashing type blade. The area mid way along the blade is the sharpist... again pointing to its ability to 'slash'. The carving on the handle is very good quality, and improves the 'grip' considerably without being too ornate. The guard in the photos look thin and weak. However this is not the case, I have tried to bend it and found it to be very strong and would certainly protect the hand. Why make a ceremonial knife with a functional blade.... surely ceremonial or ritual weapons are representations ......

18th June 2006, 04:37 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS THEY WERE MADE AS THEY ARE TO MAKE THEM LESS OF A KILLING WEAPON BUT STILL FUNCTIONAL JUST IN CASE TROUBLE STARTED, A MAN FELT NAKED WITHOUT A WEAPON IN THOSE DAYS. IN A GATHERING OR CEREMONY OR IN THE PRESENCE OF ROYALTY OR HIGH RANKING PEOPLE THOSE ATTENDING WERE OFTEN ALLOWED A CERTIAN TYPE OF KNIFE OR SWORD. THIS IS COMMON IN MANY DIFFERENT SOCIETYS AROUND THE WORLD ,SOME OF THE COURT SWORDS FOR INSTANCE OR THE WEDUNG IN INDONESIAN COURTS. THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS AS MOST OF WHAT I HAVE READ OR HEARD OVER THE YEARS ASSOCIATED THESE KNIVES WITH SPECIAL CEREMONY AND NOT OPEN WARFARE. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE ORNAMENTAL AND NICE TO LOOK AT AND NO DOUBT THE WAY THEY ARE DECORATED HAS SOME SIGNIFICENCE WHICH IS PROBABLY LOST IN TODAYS SOCIETY. SO IN A GATHERING OF MEN IF A FIGHT STARTED THERE MIGHT BE SOME BLOOD BUT MOST LIKELY NO DEATH AND THE GAURDS COULD EASILY STOP A FIGHT AS THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY ONES WITH REAL FIGHTING WEAPONS. I DO CONSIDER THEM A CEREMONIAL WEAPON AND DEFINITELY ETHINOGRAPHIC AND NEAT TO LOOK AT SO THEREFORE COLLECTABLE. CONJECTURE MY SPECIALTY