Southeast Asian caplock arm

Ian · 26th September 2022, 05:37 PM

The inscription is Thai. Your picture is upside down, as noted above. I cannot make out the first two characters, but the rest are Thai numerals as shown in the attached pic.

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werecow · 26th September 2022, 06:20 PM

Hah, yeah, I was looking at the wrong row header in the numerals table.

The first two characters might be letters; นพ.

Ian · 27th September 2022, 12:19 AM

Hi werecow. Yes, I think you are right about the first two characters.

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werecow · 27th September 2022, 12:51 AM

FWIW google translate says that นพ translates to Dr..

Ian · 27th September 2022, 01:02 PM

Peter, could you provide a full length picture of this gun? Any mark on the barrel or lock? If no marks, I'm wondering if this is a locally made copy of a French or British gun from the 19th C. Interesting that you note a possible Japanese connection mentioned by the seller. There were Japanese groups living in Thailand during the 18th and 19th C, and earlier.

Jim McDougall · 27th September 2022, 06:14 PM

While I know little on firearms overall, it seems to me that (from what examples I can find online) the 'pistol butt' style, if you took away the 'stock' has a certain resemblance to a traditional Japanese matchlock.

There was of course certain Japanese presence in SE Asia. I recall years ago finding examples of Japanese katana among swords of India. It seems in many discussions, there have been mentions of Japanese throughout these regions.

pbleed · 27th September 2022, 09:25 PM

This is a snapshot of the the entire arm. I doubt that this arm is in any serious way linkable to Japan. I suspect that one or another of its previous owners felt it "looked" odd and Asian and so, "Japanese." It is unmarked save for embellishment to the brass inlay along the lower stock edge and lock counter-plate. It certainly looks not at all martial.And it does not look like a "primitive" or ethnographic weapon.

Philip · 2nd October 2022, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

While I know little on firearms overall, it seems to me that (from what examples I can find online) the 'pistol butt' style, if you took away the 'stock' has a certain resemblance to a traditional Japanese matchlock.

There was of course certain Japanese presence in SE Asia. I recall years ago finding examples of Japanese katana among swords of India. It seems in many discussions, there have been mentions of Japanese throughout these regions.

I don't see any resemblance to a matchlock of any sort. This is a percussion-lock gun, the two mechanical systems don't have anything in common. The Japanese also didn't make side-by-side double-barrelled matchlocks (although they did make revolving three-barreled matchlock carbines, the manually-rotated barrel system resembling similar ones made in India.)

Chronologically, the 19th cent. heyday of percussion muzzle-loading guns is much later than the Japanese presence in SE Asia that you allude to.

26th September 2022, 05:37 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	The inscription is Thai. Your picture is upside down, as noted above. I cannot make out the first two characters, but the rest are Thai numerals as shown in the attached pic. . Attached Images

27th September 2022, 12:19 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi werecow. Yes, I think you are right about the first two characters. . Attached Images

27th September 2022, 01:02 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Peter, could you provide a full length picture of this gun? Any mark on the barrel or lock? If no marks, I'm wondering if this is a locally made copy of a French or British gun from the 19th C. Interesting that you note a possible Japanese connection mentioned by the seller. There were Japanese groups living in Thailand during the 18th and 19th C, and earlier. Last edited by Ian; 27th September 2022 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Spelling

27th September 2022, 09:25 PM	#7
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	the whole gun snapshot This is a snapshot of the the entire arm. I doubt that this arm is in any serious way linkable to Japan. I suspect that one or another of its previous owners felt it "looked" odd and Asian and so, "Japanese." It is unmarked save for embellishment to the brass inlay along the lower stock edge and lock counter-plate. It certainly looks not at all martial.And it does not look like a "primitive" or ethnographic weapon. Attached Images

26th September 2022, 06:20 PM	#2
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 553	Hah, yeah, I was looking at the wrong row header in the numerals table. The first two characters might be letters; นพ.

27th September 2022, 12:51 AM	#4
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 553	FWIW google translate says that นพ translates to Dr..

27th September 2022, 06:14 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	While I know little on firearms overall, it seems to me that (from what examples I can find online) the 'pistol butt' style, if you took away the 'stock' has a certain resemblance to a traditional Japanese matchlock. There was of course certain Japanese presence in SE Asia. I recall years ago finding examples of Japanese katana among swords of India. It seems in many discussions, there have been mentions of Japanese throughout these regions.