A keris for comment

David · 13th September 2022, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Welcome to the forum. If you resize the height of the picture to 700 pixels before you upload it to the site, the whole blade will fit on the screen at once. I am looking forward to seeing more of your collection.

Just a heads up IP. You can easily zoom out your screen a bit if you want to see the entire length of blade in the verticals on your screen without scrolling. I am more concerned if if the horizontals don't fit the screen. With the larger files we can at least get better resolution for making our assessments.

Interested Party · 13th September 2022, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Just a heads up IP. You can easily zoom out your screen a bit if you want to see the entire length of blade in the verticals on your screen without scrolling. I am more concerned if if the horizontals don't fit the screen. With the larger files we can at least get better resolution for making our assessments.

Thanks David. Good advice from the voice of experience. If I remember correctly visual arts are your specialty? I like to post a first picture as an overview. then the high-resolution shots after the initial hook. I do not believe that most users will take the time to zoom out to 50% to get that overview. although I know we have several dedicated users who do this and MUCH more. Of course, for me, this is seen through the filter of having spent a lot of my time at work trying to find ways for people to absorb information in more effective ways, especially younger ones. It has become kind of an obsession formed by existential threats

What is the maximum width the screen can hold?

David · 13th September 2022, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

What is the maximum width the screen can hold?

I believe it is 1280. At least that is what is suggested for maximum upload.

Marcokeris · 13th September 2022, 08:38 PM

nice old keris

A. G. Maisey · 13th September 2022, 09:30 PM

Good to see you on board OL.

Dhapur & pamor change their names from place to place & time to time.

Most collectors use Central Javanese terminology for pamor, but dhapur is probably better covered by not using specific names, except for those Javanese keris that do conform to a known standard, something such as the Surakarta Pakem. Just naming major blade features is probably sufficient for other keris.

The most usual collector terms for the pamor in this keris would be:- wos wutah or beras wutah, both these terms have the same meaning:- scattered rice. The type of pamor is mlumah, meaning that the layers of pamor material are laying flat against the steel core of the blade. This is a random pamor.

If we accept that this keris is Balinese or Lombok origin the correct local terms become more difficult to apply and in most cases would not be recognised by the community of collectors.

The word "dapur" is Bahasa Indonesia & means "kitchen"; the word "dhapur" is Javanese & means "shape, form, design".

Marcokeris · 13th September 2022, 10:40 PM

I thought it was a Ngulit Semangka pamor

A. G. Maisey · 14th September 2022, 12:18 AM

Not to my eye Marco, but you can call it this if you wish, the difference between ngulit semangko & wos wutah is only one of pamor layering, NS is fewer layers & broader layers, WW & its sub-variants are more layers and more narrow, for example, in classic Solo WW the bakalan will have a nominal 128 layers of contrasting material before the cold work, but for Solo NS those layers will be reduced to 64, or maybe only 32.

Obviously, NS is cheaper to make than WW.

I am talking nominal layers, not finished layers, because we lose layers of material during welding, forging & cold work.

Orang Lama · 13th September 2022, 11:20 PM

Thank you so much everyone for all the comments! I should also thank everyone for all their input over the years as I've lurked this forum for quite some time and it has been an invaluable resource for me. I'm still getting the hang of the response function, so to try and get through everything:

@David Thank you for the info. I was also a bit puzzled by the fact that the blade seemed too corroded to be Balinese and had just assumed that it must have been brought in from elsewhere and dressed up by a dealer.

@IP Duly noted, I'll see what I can do next time

@Marco Thanks! It's not a masterpiece, but I quite like it. It has a nice "honest" feel to it and, as David noted, compared to the modern fake pamor blades...

@A.G. Maisey Thank you for the info and duly noted wrt the terminology and "dapur" vs "dhapur"

(According to Wikipedia that's a retroflex stop like in the Indian languages. Interesting...)

And in the meantime, this is the hulu(?) from one of my other keris. Apparently it might represent "Rare Kumara, a tutelary deity for
children on Bali"?

13th September 2022, 11:20 PM	#8
Orang Lama Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Newfoundland Posts: 6	Thank you so much everyone for all the comments! I should also thank everyone for all their input over the years as I've lurked this forum for quite some time and it has been an invaluable resource for me. I'm still getting the hang of the response function, so to try and get through everything: @David Thank you for the info. I was also a bit puzzled by the fact that the blade seemed too corroded to be Balinese and had just assumed that it must have been brought in from elsewhere and dressed up by a dealer. @IP Duly noted, I'll see what I can do next time @Marco Thanks! It's not a masterpiece, but I quite like it. It has a nice "honest" feel to it and, as David noted, compared to the modern fake pamor blades... @A.G. Maisey Thank you for the info and duly noted wrt the terminology and "dapur" vs "dhapur" (According to Wikipedia that's a retroflex stop like in the Indian languages. Interesting...) And in the meantime, this is the hulu(?) from one of my other keris. Apparently it might represent "Rare Kumara, a tutelary deity for children on Bali"? Attached Images

13th September 2022, 08:38 PM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	nice old keris

13th September 2022, 09:30 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Good to see you on board OL. Dhapur & pamor change their names from place to place & time to time. Most collectors use Central Javanese terminology for pamor, but dhapur is probably better covered by not using specific names, except for those Javanese keris that do conform to a known standard, something such as the Surakarta Pakem. Just naming major blade features is probably sufficient for other keris. The most usual collector terms for the pamor in this keris would be:- wos wutah or beras wutah, both these terms have the same meaning:- scattered rice. The type of pamor is mlumah, meaning that the layers of pamor material are laying flat against the steel core of the blade. This is a random pamor. If we accept that this keris is Balinese or Lombok origin the correct local terms become more difficult to apply and in most cases would not be recognised by the community of collectors. The word "dapur" is Bahasa Indonesia & means "kitchen"; the word "dhapur" is Javanese & means "shape, form, design".

13th September 2022, 10:40 PM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I thought it was a Ngulit Semangka pamor

14th September 2022, 12:18 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Not to my eye Marco, but you can call it this if you wish, the difference between ngulit semangko & wos wutah is only one of pamor layering, NS is fewer layers & broader layers, WW & its sub-variants are more layers and more narrow, for example, in classic Solo WW the bakalan will have a nominal 128 layers of contrasting material before the cold work, but for Solo NS those layers will be reduced to 64, or maybe only 32. Obviously, NS is cheaper to make than WW. I am talking nominal layers, not finished layers, because we lose layers of material during welding, forging & cold work.