Regarding the chisel edge on Naga sword-daos.

[ausjulius]

more footage this time form burma,, not china. but still you can see many different ethnic groups swords used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNTsVrEYQdI

[Tim Simmons]

Fantastic. If that happened where I live the authorities would be shivering with outrage fear and angst, so many people peacefully carrying weapons. The UK is torn between lining up all the weapons like knives and swords after bad things happen and telling them not to do it again, while ignoring what makes the bad people do bad things .

[OakenStaff]

Thank you very much, ausjulius! I appreciate the insights into the usage of the sword-dao.

[Ian]

This topic has been discussed several times previously on the forum and some of the confusion around the various types of Kachin swords.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26277
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6724

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Fantastic. If that happened where I live the authorities would be shivering with outrage fear and angst, so many people peacefully carrying weapons. The UK is torn between lining up all the weapons like knives and swords after bad things happen and telling them not to do it again, while ignoring what makes the bad people do bad things .

haha so true. yeah its weird, in china for example with its oppressive laws relating to weapons and such ethnic gorups even then its a mix of oppression or apathy. even in tibet natives still make crossbows or muskets or openly carry swords and long knives in isloated areas. there is a sword festival among the dai (thai related group) people in china still every year.
many of these ethnic groups still make these items to trade among eachother. in india too - the hornbill festival is full of weapons, guns, swords, ect. there is some other smaller ethnic festivals in india in the north east where native costume and weapons are still seen and are not just tourist items.
all these little ethnic groups sort of overlap in territory and historically fell under the burmese or tibetians or other larger groups influence and so there is layers of influence. 4 or 5 ethnic groups might have overlapping territory. blurry lines. i suppose its not so odd, i mean historically one ethnic group , especialy trading ones might assume the weapons of other groups as they like them.
generally we have an opinion that ethnigraphic weaponry solidly defines the ethnic gorup it is found among, this is strong in our minds as collectors as almost all ethnographic weapons we collect are items used as cultural identifiers of the group native to it (most of the time). but if you look at european swords for example in history they were mostly not ethospecific. or weapons in the middle east there is many that cross over some from far afeild.
adoption of other cultures weapons can be so extencive that it ultimatly makes the native styles extinct

[Peter Dekker]

[Edit; was rambling about another type of sword.]

As for the single edge bevel, it is interesting to note that this edge bevel is seen also on swords of headhunters of Taiwan, and the Dayak headhunters of Borneo. It seems that they may have a shared origin and, indeed perhaps indeed help with head-taking, something I have no experience with myself.

[Ian]

I would add another reason why the single bevel may be preferred to a more traditional saber grind. The single bevel may be easier to maintain and keep sharpened. A file usually can keep a single bevel very sharp with little effort. The V-grind, however, requires a bit more work and skill.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Ian

I would add another reason why the single bevel may be preferred to a more traditional saber grind. The single bevel may be easier to maintain and keep sharpened. A file usually can keep a single bevel very sharp with little effort. The V-grind, however, requires a bit more work and skill.

it is much harder to sharpen maintain and use the single beveled blades than a normal double bevel.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Peter Dekker

[Edit; was rambling about another type of sword.]

As for the single edge bevel, it is interesting to note that this edge bevel is seen also on swords of headhunters of Taiwan, and the Dayak headhunters of Borneo. It seems that they may have a shared origin and, indeed perhaps indeed help with head-taking, something I have no experience with myself.

yeah they are all similar cultures.... but they all have separated before the age of iron i think and single bevels seem to have appeared with steel. id say its coincidence as none of these groups have any regular trade or contact.

[RobT]

Ausjulius,

As a woodworker for many years, I find it difficult to accept your contention that, "it is much harder to sharpen maintain and use the single beveled blades than a normal double bevel". Chisels and planes are routinely used and maintained in woodworking. In fact, the single bevel (AKA chisel grind) is used in woodworking far more often than the double bevel. The key to maintaining a sharp chisel, plane or draw knife is to make absolutely certain that the edge of the flat side is absolutely flat. Once that is done, it is simply a matter of making sure that the beveled side meets the flat side at the appropriate angle. There is an abundance of online information about how to get this done for Western as well as Eastern chisels and planes. I will also add that a chisel grind on a knife or short sword allows it to be used as a draw knife which makes it more versatile than a double bevel knife.

Sincerely,
RobT

[kronckew]

I agree with RobT.

Japanese single bevel knives are 'handed', usually right, to produce a fine 90º cut, the angled surface pushed the cut-off bit out of the way to the left and the cook craftsman can more easily see and control the cut.

My Taiwan knives have right-handed single bevels and are easy to sharpen the angled bevel side, then fine stone &/or strop the flat side to remove the burr.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by RobT

Ausjulius,

As a woodworker for many years, I find it difficult to accept your contention that, "it is much harder to sharpen maintain and use the single beveled blades than a normal double bevel". Chisels and planes are routinely used and maintained in woodworking. In fact, the single bevel (AKA chisel grind) is used in woodworking far more often than the double bevel. The key to maintaining a sharp chisel, plane or draw knife is to make absolutely certain that the edge of the flat side is absolutely flat. Once that is done, it is simply a matter of making sure that the beveled side meets the flat side at the appropriate angle. There is an abundance of online information about how to get this done for Western as well as Eastern chisels and planes. I will also add that a chisel grind on a knife or short sword allows it to be used as a draw knife which makes it more versatile than a double bevel knife.

Sincerely,
RobT

it is much harder to produce and maintain an single bevel on any item than a double bevel,
this is not my optinon ,
it is just how it works.
you need to keep a single bevel very precice and flat to produce a good effective cut and to sharpen it if on either side even a small secondary bevel develps it will ruin the cutting features of the blade.

a double venel can be lopsided, multi beveled even almost blunt and stull cut. it can cut wood flesh.. ect..
a single bevel once nolonger keen and true becomes totally useless

there is many reaons for this,

it is why you can take a simple machete or parang that is blunt and still swoosh it though foliage or even wood,
if i take a blunt bolo and try this it will just punch off , bind or chip the wood.

this is not at all complicated to observe.
if you are still confused by this.. take a hammer, a slug of ore and a small stone anvil , forge a single beveled true and flat blade of r a single beven,.,. use a hand scraper to true the flat side and plane the angled beven to a razor edge, quench it .. it is a great deal of work to do it well

now do the same thing with a wedge shaped blade adn you can forge without any scraping to a thin edge, rub it unhardened on a stone and then quench it and it will work as good as a finely finished blade.


the single bevelled blades are carefully made with several specialised scraping tools to produce very flat surfaces.
in places where single bevels are common like japan these blades are gorund on machines now
in others places like the philippines and bali they are not unusable and the principals of them are even becomming vague the blades slowly transition into double beveled blades that are asymetrical.. due to lazy low skileld smiths.. very low prices and apathetic customers..
most bolis form cebu or negros ect are almost unusable form the market and even after 1 hour of grinding are sitll just as bad.
the old bolos arer true and flat and crisp like a machine made them..
all scraped for hours carefully by hand before quenching.
you can not just carelessly sharpen a single beveled tool and expect a good effect.