Misecorde, Stiletto, ?

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting item, and I agree, this would be an outstanding addition to a naval grouping! I have a hard time figuring pragmatically what the reason for removing the quillon terminals. It does seem they must have been removed in accord as the length of both is similar. Possible one got broken and the other was also removed for symmetry?
I had not ever thought brass was so fragile these elements would be subject to breaking, however I have a briquet of brass whose quillon is also broken (unless purposely removed). Again, cannot fathom (good naval term) what reason.

Comments from P.G.W.Annis (1970)

[kronckew]

I suspect that the brass quillion may have bent under impact, which may have work-hardened it a bit & it broke when being straightened, possibly then they bent/broke the other to match. a break would show a jagged appearance, which i would have smoothed by sanding & polishing.


From "British Swords and Swordsmanship, pg. 55-59 Dirks, excerpts (my rewordingss):

Midshipmen were not the young boys of fiction. For example, on HMS London, in 1751, the youngest was 17 and the oldest 47. The 1856 pattern dirk was standardized and worn by midshipmen in the latter part of the Victorian period, it is in this period that they established the fiction of the young boys, and only they wore dirks. Before that, on father found that when outfitting his son as a midshipman, expecting to buy him a dirk, was told that midshipmen wore swords. Prior to that, dirks just showed officer status, and even admirals are painted wearing them, as they were more convenient aboard ship. Midshipmen (and warrant officers had black sharkskin sword grips, white was for lieutenants and above.



I am not sure if this was true in the USA. When I was a First class cadet (midshipman), in 1968, I was a cadet officer and carried a std. white grip US naval sword on parade. The non-officers carried 1903A3 Springfield rifles. The Pershing Rifles unit carried M1 Garands & drilled with sword bayonets. (I was also a PR as Ops officer & rarely competed, but had to be able to fill in, so I got qualified in fancy trick drill myself)

[M ELEY]

Here's my British example with ivory fluted grip, pillow pommel and fighting blade 9along with a stiletto for comparison-

[M ELEY]

And here's another example with what I call the 'propeller' pattern crossguard, which I think is an English pattern.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

And here's another example with what I call the 'propeller' pattern crossguard, which I think is an English pattern.

The book I referenced above "British Swords and Swordsmanship" pg. 56, lists it as 'Propeller pattern circa 1790"
Note the oval disk ref. - and the 'button', I'd guess was added after mfg. by the outfitter or purchaser.

[M ELEY]

Ha! And here I thought I'd come up with that term on my own! Thanks for that reference, Wayne, as well as confirmation of my suspected belief that it was a British pattern.

[M ELEY]

Opps, crossed paths with your post, David. I think you nailed it correctly. This is a civilian 'gambler's boot dagger' type seen in the Old West up to the 20's. Interestingly, many of these were actually made in Sheffield (that pommel cap resembing the English ones so much) and sold to the U.S. market back in the 19th c. The ivory hilts and fitting throw people into thinking naval dirk, but the blade is more like an Arkansas toothpick knife of the Old West. Nice piece!

[David R]

Not sure if this counts, but one dealer had the exact match to this described as a naval dirk. I do mean exact as well, so it is an actual pattern whether commercial or military. I am dubious about that identification, I bought mine as a civilian stileto of the early 20th C.