The things we cannot see

[JustYS]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The word "tuah" in the context of keris, as explained to me by Empu Suparman is that it refers to the inherrent talismanic and/or magical qualities of a keris that are expressed by the pamor and dhapur of the keris, these qualities probably existed in the iron and other material used to make the keris before they were used to make the keris, but it took an Mpu working according to the sanctified way by using selected days of work, offerings (slametan), prayers and mantras to release the energy of the materials into the finished keris.

Thank you for your detailed explanation Alan. I imagine this is why Keris is considered as Prayers in Steel? An Empu forge a Keris as a form of prayer (represented by pamor and dhapur) suited according to the wishes/hopes of the custodian?

I'm waiting for your explanation on Isi.

Best Regards,

YS

[A. G. Maisey]

Not quite YS.

This "prayers in steel" thing is, I believe, pretty new, but it is understandable.

It is not something I ever heard from the people who taught me, I have the feeling that the idea might have originated in the Jogja community.

There are a couple of things that we might consider when thinking about this "prayers in steel" thing.

Firstly, there is very, very little steel in a keris, so clearly the phrase was initiated by somebody who understood a minimal amount about the technology of making a keris.

Secondly there are some people who believe that when the Mpu prays during actual production of the keris the material records his prayers, and those prayers are embedded in the material of the keris forever. I did not hear this belief from the people who taught me.

Thirdly, if read from left to right when the tip of the blade is pointing up, and the gandhik is to the left of the person holding the keris, what we do have is a prayer.

Before praying to other deities many, if not most Hindu devotees offer a brief prayer to Ganesha, and the Kembang Kacang represents Ganesha, in the event that the Kembang Kacang has a Jenggotan, we will see the RonDha, and the Ron Dha can be read as the shortest mantra "AUM", the Blumbangan is representative of the Yoni, the Sogokan a representation of the Lingga, which in turn symbolises Siwa, where a greneng is present we see the RonDha again, so the prayer closes with the shortest mantra "AUM".

So:- AUM>Ganesha>Yoni>Lingga> AUM

and of course, apart from the symbolism related to Mount Meru (Mount Kailash), and the other ways in which the keris can be understood, we have the keris as symbolic of Siwa himself.

When the symbolism of the keris is understood it is very easy to understand why Islam needed to be very proactive in trying to remove the pre-Islamic symbolism from the keris and to replace that with ideas that were more acceptable to Islam.

[Anthony G.]

I have a close friend who collects weapons of all sort including keris but then he decided to 'stop' keris collecting. He has a devoted Thai Buddhist friend who one day paid him a visit and told him that he saw an old Malay man (invisible) squatting in the area. And he put all his collection in a storage space at another location. I was told strange events sometimes happen at the other location but no more at the place where he lives.

[A. G. Maisey]

This story is one I've heard more times than I can count, it varies in the details but the overall theme is always the same:-

keris > strange, inexplicable happenings> old man, not always visible to everybody> keris moved > inexplicable things cease.

there is one other factor that is always present in every keris story, and that is that human beings are always involved.

I cannot provide explanations, but I have heard lots of stories and I have experienced at arms length some peculiar things.

I do accept that things can happen that I do not understand.

[jagabuwana]

There is a lot to think about in your post #26, Alan. Thank you for this very valuable knowledge.

Times seem to be changing fast, and the knowledge and beliefs about the keris with it. It would seem to me that if things continue going the way they currently are, that the knowledges and beliefs as you learned them might disappear. That to me sounds disastrous in that it could be irretrievable, and maybe even akin to the collapse of a culture, but maybe I'm being too bleak. Do you see these knowledges and beliefs enduring?

[A. G. Maisey]

Time changes perspective Jaga.

That simple.

The way in which anything has been thought about in the past is only relative to that time.

Islam did not abolish the keris, it just set out to make the belief systems attached to the keris more acceptable to Islam. Same thing happens with many things when a new philosophy begins to take over a society, the changes in the society in turn change the details, but not the roots of the culture.

When we try to understand the keris we need to determine which window in time we will use to provide the perspective that we use for that understanding.

I prefer a slightly older perspective than most people.

[SidJ]

My daughter who is 12 when holding old keris can in some cases feel ceetain sensations like a feeling of warmth, Prickling of fingers, etc and once even told ne she could feel the keris waking up. I feel none of these sensations. As an example I just acquired 2 keris. One newer and one quite old. My daughter when holding the new one said it made her arm feel twitchy and she quickly returned it to me. The old one she said had no feelings arise. Funnily she does not want me to sell any of my keris but cares nought for any of my other old knives. She has no other interest in keris.

[BBking]

Originally Posted by SidJ

My daughter who is 12 when holding old keris can in some cases feel ceetain sensations like a feeling of warmth, Prickling of fingers, etc and once even told ne she could feel the keris waking up. I feel none of these sensations. As an example I just acquired 2 keris. One newer and one quite old. My daughter when holding the new one said it made her arm feel twitchy and she quickly returned it to me. The old one she said had no feelings arise. Funnily she does not want me to sell any of my keris but cares nought for any of my other old knives. She has no other interest in keris.

I saw ''by chance'' this topic ,
I collect/ am fascinated as many people here by old edged weapons.

I have two keris,
one send me no special energy but the other one, really lovely ,give me an uncomfortable mud-swamp sensation
and now I'm reading this post, I realise
I store it without really thinking about, away from home in my work-locker...

I want to say that, as mentioned , these kind of energy feeling , parallel souls or mysticism is universal, ( I live in Europe )

and that I have other weapons that give me special energy when I handle them:
an ottoman yatagan, a german old sword ,
a sikin panjang, and a japanese tachi giving special ''power sensations '' and feel the battle-destroying energy ...


Somebody can say it's all our mind,
possible, like a child playing with a wood stock and imagine he is D'Artagnan.

Another explanation is, like shinto-japanese think that the blade itself has his power.

For battle weapons,
possibly energy of people killed by the blade or part of the previous owner's soul still interact with the sword/dagger
that's what my wife always tell me and wonder why I collect old weapons !

it can happen with other old items, no just edged weapons...
My neighbour always wash old items collected under water for ''purify'' them especially jars ( as Aladdin...).

I put away a good japanese jingasa with real hair around I had
that gave uneasy feelings, nightmares
and even the cat frightened and avoided the room , now it's ok ( not just because it's a warmer place.... )
For feelings: nothing better than an animal and his connected mind...

[Marcokeris]

It would be interesting to know if a blind person has ever perceived some kind of spiritual energy, whether positive or negative, in direct contact with any kind of kris ... or other inanimate objects.

[A. G. Maisey]

Marco, I've been thinking about this idea you have floated since you put it up.

I'm still thinking.

I can only recall one person whom I have known well, during my lifetime, who was blind. She was not always blind, but grew blind as she became older, I did not meet her until she was past 100 years old, maybe 102, I think she lived to around 105. When I knew her she was definitely 100% blind.

She was Chinese-Javanese, she came from a family that had a number of people in the family with acknowledged para-normal gifts --- or curses, depending on how the person concerned perceived their particular abilities.

I cannot comment upon whether or not she had ever had any sort of feelings generated by keris, but I do know that she was able to tell about people by handling something that the person owned. In fact, the reason I met her in the first place was because that family wanted her opinion on me. She had my watch for a couple of hours. Apparently my watch told her a pretty good story about me.

She could also have dreams and ideas about happenings & people that mostly were understandable & true, but not always exactly in the way that she saw something, what she saw was things represented by symbolism that needed to be interpreted. I'm not sure how this worked.

I think if she ever had been given a keris to comment on she would have received some sort of feedback from it.