Is there a manual for yatagans?

Zifir · 13th June 2006, 06:29 AM

Kılıç is the exact equivalent of the word 'sword' in Turkish. In that sense, it is a generic word. You can call both a 19th century saber and a 15th century scimitar as kılıçs and gramatically there won't be any mistake in that

Same is true for the word shamsir. In the ottoman context, the only difference is probably while common people called a sword as kılıç, the elite prefered the arabic word shamsir. Within this general category of shamsir/kılıç there are many variations.

There are many experts in ottoman arms here, which i am not, and I think they can better explain the differences in detail.

For the earlier examples of the dress, there are many miniatures and drawings. To give you one example, this is a sketch by Gentile Bellini or by one of his associates. The man in the sketch was probably a member of janissary cavalry (sipahi) of the 15th century.

Emanuel · 13th June 2006, 03:29 PM

Thanks for the picture, I also stumbled upon it in my searches. I found a number of books on Ottoman dress -mostly in Turkish- but none of them with images

By kılıç I was referring to the sabre variant with the yelman widening at the tip. I had read a mention that yeniceri used a double-edged sabre, so this is the only Islamic saber I could think of that corresponds to this description. The variant without yelman are single-edged no?

From these images and from what I've read so far, I understand that yeniceri wore minimal armour/padding, and yet they were formidable adversaries. To fight successfully with little protection implies considerable skill - their schools obviously provided quality training. I wonder if any state records about the acemi oglan yeniceri school could shine some light on the existence of manuals...

Emanuel

ariel · 13th June 2006, 10:15 PM

Check this site:

http://www.atlant-tpg.ru/aka.html

This is a Russian Publishing house "Atlant". They have a book called Janissari: with very detailed summaries in English, ~ 1/3 of total total book.
The same book appears often on e-bay.
Great pictures, detailed info about ranks, structure, weapons, you name it.

13th June 2006, 06:29 AM	#1
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Kılıç is the exact equivalent of the word 'sword' in Turkish. In that sense, it is a generic word. You can call both a 19th century saber and a 15th century scimitar as kılıçs and gramatically there won't be any mistake in that Same is true for the word shamsir. In the ottoman context, the only difference is probably while common people called a sword as kılıç, the elite prefered the arabic word shamsir. Within this general category of shamsir/kılıç there are many variations. There are many experts in ottoman arms here, which i am not, and I think they can better explain the differences in detail. For the earlier examples of the dress, there are many miniatures and drawings. To give you one example, this is a sketch by Gentile Bellini or by one of his associates. The man in the sketch was probably a member of janissary cavalry (sipahi) of the 15th century. Attached Images

13th June 2006, 03:29 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thanks for the picture, I also stumbled upon it in my searches. I found a number of books on Ottoman dress -mostly in Turkish- but none of them with images By kılıç I was referring to the sabre variant with the yelman widening at the tip. I had read a mention that yeniceri used a double-edged sabre, so this is the only Islamic saber I could think of that corresponds to this description. The variant without yelman are single-edged no? From these images and from what I've read so far, I understand that yeniceri wore minimal armour/padding, and yet they were formidable adversaries. To fight successfully with little protection implies considerable skill - their schools obviously provided quality training. I wonder if any state records about the acemi oglan yeniceri school could shine some light on the existence of manuals... Emanuel

13th June 2006, 10:15 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Check this site: http://www.atlant-tpg.ru/aka.html This is a Russian Publishing house "Atlant". They have a book called Janissari: with very detailed summaries in English, ~ 1/3 of total total book. The same book appears often on e-bay. Great pictures, detailed info about ranks, structure, weapons, you name it.