A kind of pesh kabz, opinion and translation please

mahratt · 8th July 2022, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello dear members,

I finally got it ! ( I only had the seller pictures thats why I couldn't post more before)
The blade seems good and not recent work with what seems to me a large enough diamond section piercing mail tip.
Strange global shape indeed ,what I found interesting ,

For the inscriptions/engravings,
They are of better quality than I thought: deeply and finely engraved; I show them to a friend who read and makes arabic calligraphy and he couldn't translate the cartouche so maybe is it in afghan/ farsi ?

The scabbard sure, is a later ''invention''

Made of three part of what I think was a
bayonett or cutlass scabbard ( old european model ?)

So maybe all is an afghan mix ?

I think you are right. This dagger is made in Afghanistan. But, it is enough to compare your item with traditional pesh-kabz daggers to see the differences. I marked them with arrows in the photo.
I think that your dagger is made in the middle of the 20th century under the influence of European models of knives and daggers.

However, I am sure that this item was not made for tourists and was used as a weapon.

ariel · 8th July 2022, 02:24 PM

We can speculate until cows come home, but as long as the cartouches are not read we will remain in the dark.

mahratt · 8th July 2022, 07:00 PM

Unfortunately, the inscriptions of the 20th century are unlikely to tell us anything interesting about the dagger. In this case, they are secondary. First of all, we should pay attention to the external signs of the dagger.

ariel · 9th July 2022, 01:17 PM

I still believe that decoding the texts will bring valuable information. Thus, I took a liberty to send a pm to Kwiatek ( no response yet) and asked some of my colleagues , native Urdu, Farsi and Pashto speakers , to lend a hand.
Will see what transpires.
Both scabbard and handle are obviously old replacements but the blade is an interesting one and francantolin’s personal assessment of it is careful and honest and deserves as good an answer as possible.

gp · 9th July 2022, 02:09 PM

For the ones who did read my post, I deleted it so please look upon my comment as not written
Looking forward to the contributions of both gents in the future, much obliged

ariel · 9th July 2022, 03:00 PM

gp,
I am not ignoring them: I just expressed my general point of view. There is no need or obligation to refer to each and every previous post. Nothing personal, just different views on the practice of attribution.

Unless an item is obviously fake or “tourist”, it deserves careful consideration. Not making an effort to decipher the inscriptions ( especially with an uncertain date) prevents complete assessment of an item. Francantolin asked a legitimate question and specifically asked for translation.

I have consulted with knowledgeable people who can help, and I shall report the results. After that any person can keep his opinion, but at least we shall have full information that the new owner asked for.

francantolin · 13th July 2022, 05:04 PM

Hello,

Thank you Ariel for your messages,
I did some research on internet,
I found this interesting caucasian knife
Dates 1880
with an afghan damascus blade and a renforced tip.
There is a ricasso too and the horn handle looks like
mine

9th July 2022, 02:09 PM	#5
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 823	For the ones who did read my post, I deleted it so please look upon my comment as not written Looking forward to the contributions of both gents in the future, much obliged Last edited by gp; 9th July 2022 at 03:23 PM.

13th July 2022, 05:04 PM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello, Thank you Ariel for your messages, I did some research on internet, I found this interesting caucasian knife Dates 1880 with an afghan damascus blade and a renforced tip. There is a ricasso too and the horn handle looks like mine Attached Images

8th July 2022, 02:24 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	We can speculate until cows come home, but as long as the cartouches are not read we will remain in the dark.

8th July 2022, 07:00 PM	#3
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Unfortunately, the inscriptions of the 20th century are unlikely to tell us anything interesting about the dagger. In this case, they are secondary. First of all, we should pay attention to the external signs of the dagger.

9th July 2022, 01:17 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I still believe that decoding the texts will bring valuable information. Thus, I took a liberty to send a pm to Kwiatek ( no response yet) and asked some of my colleagues , native Urdu, Farsi and Pashto speakers , to lend a hand. Will see what transpires. Both scabbard and handle are obviously old replacements but the blade is an interesting one and francantolin’s personal assessment of it is careful and honest and deserves as good an answer as possible.

9th July 2022, 03:00 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	gp, I am not ignoring them: I just expressed my general point of view. There is no need or obligation to refer to each and every previous post. Nothing personal, just different views on the practice of attribution. Unless an item is obviously fake or “tourist”, it deserves careful consideration. Not making an effort to decipher the inscriptions ( especially with an uncertain date) prevents complete assessment of an item. Francantolin asked a legitimate question and specifically asked for translation. I have consulted with knowledgeable people who can help, and I shall report the results. After that any person can keep his opinion, but at least we shall have full information that the new owner asked for.