A Trio of Chinese Swords Joins the Accidental Collection

Lee · 4th July 2022, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

If you have a pic of the tang peening mushroom on the end of the pommel, I can get a better idea of when the re-hilting likely occurred.

Philip, thank you for your insights on these swords as well the notes on their provenance. When I first saw them at the preview, it was clear that they had all required significant polishing and restoration and it was also clear that the work was of excellent quality (and reminded me of some of your fine work that had come my way via Scott Rodell decades ago.) These three swords came from a rural auction in upstate New York.

I have attached an image of the pommel showing the peening of the tang in the sword with later cupronickel mountings as you have suggested.

I refer to my collection of about a dozen Chinese swords as my "accidental" collection as for whatever reason, knowledge about them was pretty scarce in my earlier collecting days and so I never actively sought them. I guess a number of other collectors were influenced by the same information void. Fortunately a few really nice examples did find me over the years (via Scott Rodell, the Yaroms and Peter Dekker) but a number were chance encounters. I remember a dealer in Brimfield once 'begging" me to take a pair of Chinese swords, a big ring pommel and a big ox-tail at $75 each, if I recall correctly. I suspected they were recent and artificially aged, but I took them home anyway as he had done me well on another item. Months later, I examined them with more care and realized they were decent antiques!

Philip · 4th July 2022, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Philip, thank you for your insights on these swords as well the notes on their provenance. .

I have attached an image of the pommel showing the peening of the tang in the sword with later cupronickel mountings as you have suggested.

You're most welcome. Odd how that ring pommeled knife that I did the extensive restoration / rebuild on went all the way from the Sandwich Isles to a rural sale in the upcountry Empire State.

Thanks for the photo. The appearance of the peened iron doesn't have the color and texture of something that's been accumulating patina over as many years as that blade is likely to have been around.

The brass of the pommel appears to be of fairly flimsy sheet. This spells "late" and possibly decorative or theatrical to me. A blade like the one on that's on there now would likely have had something more substantial.

The more I look at the suspension system, the stranger things become. Not only are the soldered/brazed-on bands highly atypical for a saber scabbard, but also I see that the tops of the loops are also attached to the bar itself in a similar fashion. In almost all cases the bar itself is a one-piece construction, either forged and drilled/filed in the case of iron, or cast to shape in the case of non-ferrous alloys.

Philip · 4th July 2022, 11:17 PM

Another thing about this set of metal hardware that's a bit funny -- the chape has a chased border with a decorative curlicue at the apex. The throat and two bands lack any border. This runs counter to the preference for stylistic consistency when it comes to embellishment of the basic forms.

Philip · 4th July 2022, 11:19 PM

Lee, I know that photos can sometimes deceive when it comes to color and tone when camera angle and ambient lighting come into play. With the piece in your hands, do you notice any difference in the color of the metal between the pommel/ferrule, the guard, and the scabbard fittings?

Lee · 5th July 2022, 03:15 AM

It will be a day or two until I can again get the sword in my hands and in good light, but the original set of images was prepared in overcast sunlight.

The scabbard mounts and the guard are in a very similar and quite pale alloy, I presume a brass, though unusually pale. The ferrule of the hilt and the pommel are of a yellower alloy, I believe towards a more 'typical' brass.

The scabbard mounts are of adequately thick gauge stock compared to the pommel. My impression was that these mounts did show some age and evidence of honest use, but clearly not so much as the blade, just as you suspect. The lacquer on the scabbard also appeared to have some age.

Philip · 5th July 2022, 05:15 AM

Thanks, Lee. You confirmed my initial suspicion about color difference between the components. I agree that the scabbard finish and the metal hardware are not new, they have some age though not likely "born together" with the blade. The wooden parts were fabricated to fit the blade at the time that the metal parts were assembled and installed, whenever that was. My guess is ca. 1900 or early in the last century. An altogether interesting and intriguing piece.

The red pigment in the fullers is lacquer, it was a form of decoration occasionally done, generally on better blades. Sometimes the fullers were lined in gold. Here is a very fine example, 17th through first half 18th cent., very subdued aesthetic but with channels lined in lacquer and gold, on display at the Museum of the Peoples Liberation Army, Beijing.

Peter Dekker · 19th July 2022, 08:48 AM

Hi guys,

I'm a little late to the party. I see Philip -the O.G. of antique Chinese swords research- pretty much covered it all!

Considering his remarks at the tunkou, I agree and when you look at the pattern or pitting on the base of that blade I seem to be making out an outline of the original tunkou which was somewhat longer and of a slightly different profile.

The baitong mounted one seems to hark back to Ming dynasty saber designs in a tasteful way. The later suspension bar also reflects this, so whoever made it had some awareness of older pre-Qing stylistic elements.

I, too, like the iron-mounted one the most. Some pitting on mounts but considering how rarely good iron-mounted Chinese swords come up these days we should consider ourselves lucky when a complete one turns up at all.

Good finds!

4th July 2022, 11:17 PM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	more on the scabbard fittings Another thing about this set of metal hardware that's a bit funny -- the chape has a chased border with a decorative curlicue at the apex. The throat and two bands lack any border. This runs counter to the preference for stylistic consistency when it comes to embellishment of the basic forms.

4th July 2022, 11:19 PM	#4
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Another question Lee, I know that photos can sometimes deceive when it comes to color and tone when camera angle and ambient lighting come into play. With the piece in your hands, do you notice any difference in the color of the metal between the pommel/ferrule, the guard, and the scabbard fittings?

5th July 2022, 05:15 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Thanks, Lee. You confirmed my initial suspicion about color difference between the components. I agree that the scabbard finish and the metal hardware are not new, they have some age though not likely "born together" with the blade. The wooden parts were fabricated to fit the blade at the time that the metal parts were assembled and installed, whenever that was. My guess is ca. 1900 or early in the last century. An altogether interesting and intriguing piece. The red pigment in the fullers is lacquer, it was a form of decoration occasionally done, generally on better blades. Sometimes the fullers were lined in gold. Here is a very fine example, 17th through first half 18th cent., very subdued aesthetic but with channels lined in lacquer and gold, on display at the Museum of the Peoples Liberation Army, Beijing. Attached Images

5th July 2022, 03:15 AM	#5
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	It will be a day or two until I can again get the sword in my hands and in good light, but the original set of images was prepared in overcast sunlight. The scabbard mounts and the guard are in a very similar and quite pale alloy, I presume a brass, though unusually pale. The ferrule of the hilt and the pommel are of a yellower alloy, I believe towards a more 'typical' brass. The scabbard mounts are of adequately thick gauge stock compared to the pommel. My impression was that these mounts did show some age and evidence of honest use, but clearly not so much as the blade, just as you suspect. The lacquer on the scabbard also appeared to have some age.

19th July 2022, 08:48 AM	#7
Peter Dekker Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands Posts: 63	Hi guys, I'm a little late to the party. I see Philip -the O.G. of antique Chinese swords research- pretty much covered it all! Considering his remarks at the tunkou, I agree and when you look at the pattern or pitting on the base of that blade I seem to be making out an outline of the original tunkou which was somewhat longer and of a slightly different profile. The baitong mounted one seems to hark back to Ming dynasty saber designs in a tasteful way. The later suspension bar also reflects this, so whoever made it had some awareness of older pre-Qing stylistic elements. I, too, like the iron-mounted one the most. Some pitting on mounts but considering how rarely good iron-mounted Chinese swords come up these days we should consider ourselves lucky when a complete one turns up at all. Good finds!