A kind of pesh kabz, opinion and translation please

fernando · 26th June 2022, 02:06 PM

Any reason not to show us the whole piece, francantolin ? Can we see the entire piece ?

Richard G · 26th June 2022, 05:17 PM

My two pennies worth - zero in arabic script is a dot, which can be overlooked or omitted. Thus AH1309 is a possibility.
Regards
Richard
PS. I can see 'amal' which indicates it is a date of manufacture.

ariel · 26th June 2022, 08:36 PM

Indeed, there is a long gap between 3 and 9 and a missing 0 there is a theoretical possibility. Howevver, I cannot recall any Islamic date written with a number in the its middle omitted.
However, whether 1139 (1726 G) or 1309 ( 1891 G) , both are far, far earlier than 1970’s:-)

The armor-piercing tip also makes the end of the 20th century unlikely: the age of armour was over long before that. I see nothing sharing its appearance with any European features except for the ricasso, but “indian ricasso” might be a direct possibility.

Waiting for Kwiatek.

mahratt · 27th June 2022, 06:42 AM

Thinking aloud: having an "armor-piercing" point does not guarantee that the dagger was made in the days when armor was used ...

francantolin · 27th June 2022, 12:30 PM

Thank you all for your messages,

Mahratt, this one is your's ?
Do you think it is a "recent" 20th century model ?
The final tip is not large/strong enough ?

mahratt · 27th June 2022, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Thank you all for your messages,

Mahratt, this one is your's ?
Do you think it is a "recent" 20th century model ?
The final tip is not large/strong enough ?

Hello, francantolin

No, this is not my dagger. But there are a lot of these items, made in the early 2000s for American soldiers who served in Afghanistan, on e-bay. The one I posted is definitely a tourist one.

Your dagger, I think, could have been used as a weapon. But from its appearance, I tend to think it's late 20th century.

francantolin · 8th July 2022, 09:07 AM

Hello dear members,

I finally got it ! ( I only had the seller pictures thats why I couldn't post more before)
The blade seems good and not recent work with what seems to me a large enough diamond section piercing mail tip.
Strange global shape indeed ,what I found interesting ,

For the inscriptions/engravings,
They are of better quality than I thought: deeply and finely engraved; I show them to a friend who read and makes arabic calligraphy and he couldn't translate the cartouche so maybe is it in afghan/ farsi ?

The scabbard sure, is a later ''invention''

Made of three part of what I think was a
bayonett or cutlass scabbard ( old european model ?)

So maybe all is an afghan mix ?

27th June 2022, 06:42 AM	#4
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Thinking aloud: having an "armor-piercing" point does not guarantee that the dagger was made in the days when armor was used ... Attached Images

8th July 2022, 09:07 AM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello dear members, I finally got it ! ( I only had the seller pictures thats why I couldn't post more before) The blade seems good and not recent work with what seems to me a large enough diamond section piercing mail tip. Strange global shape indeed ,what I found interesting , For the inscriptions/engravings, They are of better quality than I thought: deeply and finely engraved; I show them to a friend who read and makes arabic calligraphy and he couldn't translate the cartouche so maybe is it in afghan/ farsi ? The scabbard sure, is a later ''invention'' Made of three part of what I think was a bayonett or cutlass scabbard ( old european model ?) So maybe all is an afghan mix ? Attached Images

26th June 2022, 02:06 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Any reason not to show us the whole piece, francantolin ? Can we see the entire piece ?

26th June 2022, 05:17 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 409	My two pennies worth - zero in arabic script is a dot, which can be overlooked or omitted. Thus AH1309 is a possibility. Regards Richard PS. I can see 'amal' which indicates it is a date of manufacture.

26th June 2022, 08:36 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Indeed, there is a long gap between 3 and 9 and a missing 0 there is a theoretical possibility. Howevver, I cannot recall any Islamic date written with a number in the its middle omitted. However, whether 1139 (1726 G) or 1309 ( 1891 G) , both are far, far earlier than 1970’s:-) The armor-piercing tip also makes the end of the 20th century unlikely: the age of armour was over long before that. I see nothing sharing its appearance with any European features except for the ricasso, but “indian ricasso” might be a direct possibility. Waiting for Kwiatek.

27th June 2022, 12:30 PM	#5
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Thank you all for your messages, Mahratt, this one is your's ? Do you think it is a "recent" 20th century model ? The final tip is not large/strong enough ?