A composite mystery to me.

Gavin Nugent · 25th June 2022, 01:29 PM

Alan,

Would/could this be a Keris Sombro? Or is this a catch phrase thrown around where these small talismanic keris are concerned?

With thanks

Gavin

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I've had a bit of a play in Photoshop with one of Gavin's images, I will not publish it because of his obvious desire that his images should be his personal property.

I have had reasonable success in improving the clarity of the image, and based upon what I believe I can now see, I am reasonably confident that the markings on the blade are not purely decorative, however if they are intended to be talismanic I feel that only the person who put them there might be the only person who would have understood their intent. This is not unusual with any talismanic object:- if only the owner understands the purpose of the talisman, power cannot be drained from that talisman.

Similarly with the thing on the back edge of the blade, I cannot relate this form to anything I have previously seen.

So, talismanic?

Possibly.

If not, then a change made to a pretty ugly keris in order to make it saleable. This is very, very common and has resulted in the presence of objects in major, well known and sometimes published, collections.

A. G. Maisey · 25th June 2022, 10:34 PM

No Gavin.

Here is a link to an old thread:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=sombro

Post 28 has some good examples of Sombros.

They are small,light, thin, gonjo iras, but the defining feature is the hole in the end of the pesi, the story is that after Empu Sombro ( a lady) had made a quantity of these little blades she would thread them onto a piece of twine and walk from place to place selling them, to remove from the twine after sale the eye that accommodated the thread was broken.

The probable reality is that these little keris were talismanic, the eye was used for suspension within a house, or around the neck, over time the eye eroded and broke open.

Skimming through previous posts it looks like we failed to adequately address the fittings:-

wrongko awak-awakan (gambar, sampir,top,main part) Madura udang-udangan, wrongko gandar a replacement, hilt Madura/East Jawa sandang walikat, selut probably North Coast Jawa.

Gavin Nugent · 25th June 2022, 11:45 PM

Thank you Alan.

The first four points you note are what led me down this path, it is all those things... but no ring end to the pesi.

The pesi does have these recesses that look more to be formed than eroded over time.

Some better photos to show the overall size in relation to the keys on a standard keyboard.

It does have a knife like form which reminds me of a more demure version of the knives used in Balinese funeral ceremonies.

I have read, but written without substance or proper reference, that such things like this little example, could have been used in childbirth as a magical ward and to the cut umbilical cords.

Gavin

A. G. Maisey · 26th June 2022, 01:14 AM

Understood, but Sombros do not have this form.

In fact, there is more than a little confusion about Sombros, even in Ensiklopedi the picture is wrong.

They are thin, thin as a piece of paper, they MUST have the hole in the end of the pesi, or at least the remnant of the broken hole, they do not have strange lumps sticking out from them, technically, the dhapur is brojol. The material from which Sombros are made is usually very select material, although paper thin, the material is dense and tightly forged, what we call "padat". The material in this keris is very hot short material, look at all the cracks in it, this is very poor, probably uncleaned, material. My guess is that the material itself had some esoteric value for the person who forged, or had forged, the blade, so the quality of the material was secondary to its esoteric value.

The childbirth thing with Sombros is that when a woman is about to give birth the keris is placed under her bed, or if just a mattress or tikar on the floor, under that, and the presence of the keris helps an easy birth.

Using the keris, any keris, to cut the umbilical cord is not general, in fact I have never heard of it. Keris are not really intended to cut, and are not regarded in a similar way to any kind of knife.

A lot of the comment we read about keris in both published hardcopy, and on the net is pure invention, imagination, and that invention has multiplied beyond all reason since the advent of the net.

If somebody tells us something about keris, we should always ask who their teachers were. How & where did they learn this previously unknown information.

Info from Kyai Susesewong who visits in dreams on Kamis Legi is just not good enough.

25th June 2022, 11:45 PM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thank you Alan. The first four points you note are what led me down this path, it is all those things... but no ring end to the pesi. The pesi does have these recesses that look more to be formed than eroded over time. Some better photos to show the overall size in relation to the keys on a standard keyboard. It does have a knife like form which reminds me of a more demure version of the knives used in Balinese funeral ceremonies. I have read, but written without substance or proper reference, that such things like this little example, could have been used in childbirth as a magical ward and to the cut umbilical cords. Gavin Attached Images

26th June 2022, 01:14 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Understood, but Sombros do not have this form. In fact, there is more than a little confusion about Sombros, even in Ensiklopedi the picture is wrong. They are thin, thin as a piece of paper, they MUST have the hole in the end of the pesi, or at least the remnant of the broken hole, they do not have strange lumps sticking out from them, technically, the dhapur is brojol. The material from which Sombros are made is usually very select material, although paper thin, the material is dense and tightly forged, what we call "padat". The material in this keris is very hot short material, look at all the cracks in it, this is very poor, probably uncleaned, material. My guess is that the material itself had some esoteric value for the person who forged, or had forged, the blade, so the quality of the material was secondary to its esoteric value. The childbirth thing with Sombros is that when a woman is about to give birth the keris is placed under her bed, or if just a mattress or tikar on the floor, under that, and the presence of the keris helps an easy birth. Using the keris, any keris, to cut the umbilical cord is not general, in fact I have never heard of it. Keris are not really intended to cut, and are not regarded in a similar way to any kind of knife. A lot of the comment we read about keris in both published hardcopy, and on the net is pure invention, imagination, and that invention has multiplied beyond all reason since the advent of the net. If somebody tells us something about keris, we should always ask who their teachers were. How & where did they learn this previously unknown information. Info from Kyai Susesewong who visits in dreams on Kamis Legi is just not good enough. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 26th June 2022 at 01:24 AM.

25th June 2022, 10:34 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	No Gavin. Here is a link to an old thread:- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=sombro Post 28 has some good examples of Sombros. They are small,light, thin, gonjo iras, but the defining feature is the hole in the end of the pesi, the story is that after Empu Sombro ( a lady) had made a quantity of these little blades she would thread them onto a piece of twine and walk from place to place selling them, to remove from the twine after sale the eye that accommodated the thread was broken. The probable reality is that these little keris were talismanic, the eye was used for suspension within a house, or around the neck, over time the eye eroded and broke open. Skimming through previous posts it looks like we failed to adequately address the fittings:- wrongko awak-awakan (gambar, sampir,top,main part) Madura udang-udangan, wrongko gandar a replacement, hilt Madura/East Jawa sandang walikat, selut probably North Coast Jawa.