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Old 5th June 2022, 05:46 PM   #1
fernando
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Originally Posted by midelburgo View Post
... I remember at the Copenhague Tojhuset they have a machine to make red hot shot. It has a couple of rails in spiral around an oven.
I think this was for a fort, not to use on board, but they existed too...
Maybe not the one you saw, but we may see a mobile one operated by the same Royal Norwegian Navy (circa 1860).
The ones for fortification facilities are pretty massive, like this French one at Fort-la-Latte and the other at Fort Mc Allister US.


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Old 5th June 2022, 08:47 PM   #2
Jim McDougall
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It seems an 'angel shot' is the bar shot with two half spheres connected by a bar.
Spider shot is chain shot but with a number of chains.

The destructive force of any sort of cannon shot was unimaginable and horrifying even though low velocity, some moving seemingly slow through the air could have gruesome effect. With that capacity with a simple round shot ball, one can only imagine what these more elaborate devices could do.

Obviously, with chain shot, the bolo effect against a mast or rigging would seem more effective than with a ball with more localized damage on strike. As noted, these were not especially accurate with their erratic aerodynamics, so would only be close range use. The idea was to immobilize the opponent vessel to prevent escape.

In the superb book on piracy by Benerson Little, "The Golden Age of Piracy: The Truth Behind Pirate Myths" (2016), p.101, he cites a reference from "A Relation of Three Years Suffering" (Robert Evard, 1746). In this the authors narrative describes being aboard the English ship Bauden out of London attacked by pirates off the coast of Madagascar in 1686. Apparently the pirates had made several contacts with the ship, but finally in the process of boarding, the author says, "....his SHOT cut many of our shrouds".

While as often the case in recorded accounts, the 'type' of shot used is not specified, however as per our discussions, it would suggest that the type would have been chain shot.

It would seem that pirate vessels would have favored this type of weapon to immobilize the targeted ship to prevent it from escape...without damage that might sink the vessel before thorough plundering.

While not specified in actual accounts, this lack of mention is contrarily well portrayed in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" fiction with Jack Sparrow shouting, "...load your guns with chain shot! Aim for their rigging! We must slow them down". Hooray for Hollywood!
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Old 6th June 2022, 02:05 AM   #3
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Awesome comments, folks! This really gets the adventure rolling in me when I think about the excited and brutal battles at sea! I knew when ships got in a tight squeeze, just about anything might be put down a cannon's barrel to wreck havoc. If the ship were on the defensive and fleeing a predator, often they would throw all of the heavy goods over to lighten the load. This included armament and shot! (On a side note, marching armies did this as well to keep the troops on track. Cornwallis' army dumped loads of stuff in his pursuit of Nathanial Greene's army, especially while crossing the 'shallow ford' of the Yadkin River not far from my home. I have a small cannon ball retrieved from that very river bank!). If the fleeing ship decided to make a final stand, any type of shrapnel/lagrage might be used. But silver coins!!!? At least the guy hit by it could say 'Hey, I might be full of shot, but at least I'll die a wealthy man!'

Hot shot was another deadly maritime weapon. While most were not used between ships except on exceptionally rare occasions, coastal forts made good used of them against attacking marauders. It is one of the reasons that boarding axes took on the shape they had. Early spike axes or 'tomnahawks' as they were referred to in ship stores, had that wicked spike which made them a good weapon, great rigging clearance tool (see Gilkerson's excellent sketches of sailors using spike axes to drag fallen cordage off the deck), but also great pick axes! When coastal forts fired up a cannonball to furnace-red hot (a hotshot), they used small powder and a higher tragectory to essentially 'lob' the shot up and onto the deck of the enemy ship! This deadly shot could not be extinguished with simple buckets of sea water and its fearsome heat would smoulder and char the deck, threatening to set the whole vessel ablaze! (remember these wooden vessels were also covered in tar/pitch ropes, wood spars, cloth sails, etc. It's why fire was a sailor's worst nightmare!). Thus, we have a long-handled pickax to gouge away and pull out the near-molten shot and kick it over the side!!

Thanks for posting these amazing pics and for the information on the Benerson Little book. I'll definitely pick up a copy!

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Old 7th June 2022, 07:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY View Post
When coastal forts fired up a cannonball to furnace-red hot (a hotshot), they used small powder and a higher tragectory to essentially 'lob' the shot up and onto the deck of the enemy ship! This deadly shot could not be extinguished with simple buckets of sea water and its fearsome heat would smoulder and char the deck, threatening to set the whole vessel ablaze!...!
Mark, you would have certainly seen this contemporary aquatint of the 1782 Franco-Spanish attack on Gibraltar. A Spanish Floating battery is shown exploding after the British defenders set it on fire with heated shot.


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Old 8th June 2022, 12:59 AM   #5
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Actually, I hadn't seen this amazing scene! I had read of it, but hadn't thought to look up any artwork associated with that battle. Again, thank you for that table of various specialty shot, particularly post#35, which shows some of my favorites, like the 'doorknob' type and wedge shape types.

Jim, I'm assuming that shot you mentioned was similar to the so-called partridge shot I've read about, basically small shot wrapped in cloth rather like a shotgun cartridge for cannons! This type of shot was popular to use in swivel/murderers for sweeping the deck-

Werecow, great pics! I think that first shot on the left is half a bar shot? They often broke when they impacked against a mast-
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Old 8th June 2022, 02:00 AM   #6
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Something about it made me think that it was a wooden plug or something along those lines while I was there, but actually, looking at the picture now you might be right! I must confess I did not study it in great detail as there wasn't much time left before closing by the time I got to it.
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Old 8th June 2022, 04:42 AM   #7
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I've seen other bar shot recovered with just the one ball and a 'spoke', if you will, of the remains of a bar.

Here's a wedge-shot (what I call them) that also proved these were deadly anti-personnel weapons as well-

https://ltwilliammowett.tumblr.com/p...isima-trinidad
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Old 7th June 2022, 11:49 AM   #8
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From an authentic profusion of these chain shot devices that i found in a Spanish blog, i will save you from uploading the vast number of pictures depicting the said device variants and will only show the first image with the more current examples and another with the discussed 'angels' with its support text, as viewed by the blogger.
The engine translation reads:

A variant of the enfolded bullets were the angelotes or angels, which were also joined by two bars, although by means of two rings placed at the end of each of them so that, instead of unfolding, they extended. This allowed, if necessary, to use balls instead of semi-spheres as we saw in the case of arbors, although the usual morphology was the one we see in the example on the left, which we can see folded and unfolded. What we see on the right is made up of two cylinders with much shorter bars. Angels were a widely used ammunition in the Spanish navy due to their terrible effectiveness against enemy masts, which could rip off large chunks by the roots. As for its peculiar name, it apparently comes from its hypothetical resemblance to the wings of angels when they unfold,
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Old 7th June 2022, 03:55 PM   #9
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Great pics of the incredible variations in these items! I seriously had no idea so mary types existed! I had never seen that example with the two square ends with chain. Considering the vast differences in type and the use of these expanding over close to 3 centuries, I'm assuming they must have been quite effective to still be present up until the mid/late 19th century. Thank you for posting these and it has definitely expanding my knowledge. Now I want to go out and find more!
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Old 7th June 2022, 04:50 PM   #10
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Alright, i will upload a few more; the bizarre example.


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Old 7th June 2022, 04:53 PM   #11
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From a reliable source I have been told that the French were notable users of chain shot in 17th century, naturally along with other powers. Notes of a French 5th rate ship of the line says that 100 of these were carried vs. 1500 round shot, and also 200 'double head'. By about 1700 the French had abandoned chain for the double head type. This was easier to produce apparently.
Also effective against rigging and of course personnel was 'matraille' (Fr. = hail shot) which was made up of small shot and I believe in degree 'burr shot' (sprues from cast round shot). '

From what I have understood small shot, even volume of musket fire could wreak havoc in the rigging and yard arms etc. though the chain was certainly much dreaded and dramatic. It is very seldom mentioned in specific in most maritime and pirate literature despite its clearly recorded presence in many of the ordnance references in illustrations.

It seems reasonable that there were many variations of all types of these as well as shot in general deviating from round, but preference and general availability always favored simple round shot. As these types of items were produced by so many small independent forges and blacksmiths the scope of variation would seem remarkably broad. Along with items like the breech loading swivel deck guns, which were of notable variation, and often produced by anchor makers and comparable local forge workers, one can only imagine the numbers of such.
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Old 7th June 2022, 06:11 PM   #12
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Went to the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam today. Did not see any chainshot, but noticed some grapeshot models, antique grenades and wire-linked musket balls that seem relevant-ish to this thread.

Also added a picture of a hippo(?) cannon, because who wouldn't?
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Old 7th June 2022, 06:58 PM   #13
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Derar Jim, i guess mitraille (metralha over here) belongs in a different typology, within a range that comprehends canister, grape shot, even shrapnel and the like. Being an ammunition that covers both sea and (mainly ?) land purposes, if differs from chain shot, which purpose fundamentaly contemplates navy warfare.
If i am wrong, please don't tie me to whipping post .
As a footnote, the term mitraille, in fact of French origin, has with them a few different meanings, although with a similar 'dimensional' attribution, like (money) small change and (chicken) giblets.
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