A cannon chainshot

[Jim McDougall]

Curious about where these kinds of ordnance might have come from,

From ; "The Arsenal of the World: Dutch Arms Trade in the Seventeenth Century", Jan Piet Puype and Marco van der Hoeven,1996 p.69
glossary of some terms pertaining to cannon shot:

los schwerp: chain shot, two cannon balls linked with a chain
schuiftang: expanding bar shot, 'boutkagel' with expanding bar

bout, boutkagel,schietbout: bar shot; bar shaped cannon ball or two cannon balls connected with bar.

kneppel: two cannon balls linked by an iron bar

kruisscherp, kruisbal: cannon ball with transverse bar

lang scherpp: rectangular cannon projectiles

Arms merchants in Dordrecht and Liege sold these products, many of which were made in Germany, Poland or Sweden.

[M ELEY]

Jim, you snuck up on me with your awesome replies! A fellow pirate, indeed!

Thank you for coming in on this conversation, as always! I appreciate that info on the Spanish shipwreck off the isle of Alderney (I'll have to research it. I'm learning a lot from the study of certain wrecks). Confirmation of my research showing that spike shot was the earliest and used by the Elizabethan sea dogs. I must say I was surprised that bar shot was also found on this wreck from such an early period. Here's another-

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3497&lot=1371

The 'teak vs oak' explanation is also a fascinating take from your comments. The 'shivered timbers' so deadly from the impact of standard cannon balls and specialty shot such as these. A 'cleaner' wound from oak is fascinating. Speaking of shivers, anyone interested in naval battles should check out the 2017 Dutch film 'Admiral', with some heinous scenes of just how deadly these wood projectiles could be.

Thank you also for the breakdown of what other nations called these items. Much like the various names for boarding pikes, axes, cutlass in other countries, it is always interesting to see the similarities in these items (hache de bord, marine sabal, etc). The one on this list that still intrigues me just for its odd shape and how someone came up with it is the 'lang scherpp' or rectangular cannon projectile, sort of dumbell-shaped, but with widened/squared ends. I'll also have to check out that reference you mentioned by Bound, Jim. As I said, shipwreck sites and books have really helped me build m knowledge on these things.

[M ELEY]

Speaking of shipwrecks and recovered artifacts, here's one of my favorite sites featuring the wreck of the privateer French vessel Machault. Check out page 38 for some interesting folding bar shot-

https://sha.org/assets/documents/Leg...lt_English.pdf

[fernando]

Great link, Captain. Note the French 12 pounder marked with a fleur de liz; as this subject was (also) approached here.


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Great link, Captain. Note the French 12 pounder marked with a fleur de liz; as this subject was (also) approached here.


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This is excellent Fernando! Thank you!
The fleur de lis was a 'state' ownership mark, much like the broad arrow, and was I think used by the arsenal at Paris c. 1740. The sword blades from St.Etienne often found in British context had this mark blade center.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... Much like the various names for boarding pikes, axes, cutlass in other countries, it is always interesting to see the similarities in these items (hache de bord, marine sabal, etc)...

In the Oporto Military Museum, we see chain shot tagged with the generic name "Balas encadeadas" (chained bullets). Note one example has piramid coupling indentations, and the other, round ones.
The bar shot, we call it here "Palanqueta", diminutive for palanca (pole).
The last image is a French example where the half balls are hollow. They call these Boulet ramé (ramé like (tree) branch ?). Not particulary this 'atypical' pattern but again the French generic term for chain shot.


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Jim, you snuck up on me with your awesome replies! A fellow pirate, indeed!

Thank you for coming in on this conversation, as always! I appreciate that info on the Spanish shipwreck off the isle of Alderney (I'll have to research it. I'm learning a lot from the study of certain wrecks). Confirmation of my research showing that spike shot was the earliest and used by the Elizabethan sea dogs. I must say I was surprised that bar shot was also found on this wreck from such an early period. Here's another-

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3497&lot=1371

The 'teak vs oak' explanation is also a fascinating take from your comments. The 'shivered timbers' so deadly from the impact of standard cannon balls and specialty shot such as these. A 'cleaner' wound from oak is fascinating. Speaking of shivers, anyone interested in naval battles should check out the 2017 Dutch film 'Admiral', with some heinous scenes of just how deadly these wood projectiles could be.

Thank you also for the breakdown of what other nations called these items. Much like the various names for boarding pikes, axes, cutlass in other countries, it is always interesting to see the similarities in these items (hache de bord, marine sabal, etc). The one on this list that still intrigues me just for its odd shape and how someone came up with it is the 'lang scherpp' or rectangular cannon projectile, sort of dumbell-shaped, but with widened/squared ends. I'll also have to check out that reference you mentioned by Bound, Jim. As I said, shipwreck sites and books have really helped me build m knowledge on these things.

Its an exciting topic, and outstanding example you posted Capn, how could I resist!!

[M ELEY]

Thank you gentlemen for your replies. Fernando, I had completely missed those munitions, so thank you for enlarging and posting them. Jim, thanks for clarification on the state ownership marks found on some of these cannonballs. I'd love to own one, truthfully! Also a thank you, 'Nando, for the names of these ordinance in other cultures. I hope to obtain an 'angel' (a bar shot with square bar and two half balls) one of these days as well-

[midelburgo]

Going with this topic, I remember at the Copenhague Tojhuset they have a machine to make red hot shot. It has a couple of rails in spiral around an oven.
I think this was for a fort, not to use on board, but they existed too.

I also remember some Dutch account from a XVIIth century Pacific raider chasing a Spanish ship making the route from Peru to Panama.
The pursued ship run out of ammunition and started shooting fresh minted patacones.

This is a patacon. Of course what they probably shot were pieces of eight that went into the wood (some 20% larger).

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by midelburgo

Going with this topic, I remember at the Copenhague Tojhuset they have a machine to make red hot shot. It has a couple of rails in spiral around an oven.
I think this was for a fort, not to use on board, but they existed too.

I also remember some Dutch account from a XVIIth century Pacific raider chasing a Spanish ship making the route from Peru to Panama.
The pursued ship run out of ammunition and started shooting fresh minted patacones.

This is a patacon. Of course what they probably shot were pieces of eight that went into the wood (some 20% larger).

This is incredible! and takes the use of 'langrange' to a new level!
I am not familiar with 'Pacific raider' term, though of course it suggests Dutch by your note. I know there were English pirates who traversed the Isthmus of Darien to operate in the Pacific theater.

[midelburgo]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is incredible! and takes the use of 'langrange' to a new level!
I am not familiar with 'Pacific raider' term, though of course it suggests Dutch by your note. I know there were English pirates who traversed the Isthmus of Darien to operate in the Pacific theater.

I can try to track down who wrote about the encounter. I have some 20 volumes from the Linschoten Vereiniging (I read Dutch), but it has to be the Pacific...

Naval ammunition illustration is a classic. You have it already at 1539 Alonso de Chavez, but I could not find a picture over the net.

https://traslaultimafrontera.com/wp-...0/image-11.png

I can take a shot later from the facsimil.

I believe Furttenbach has also a print.

Another is the Album del Marques de la Victoria (c1730). Poor quality, it seems they want to sell the facsimile.

https://armada.defensa.gob.es/museon...ues-victoria/#

[fernando]

Originally Posted by midelburgo

... I remember at the Copenhague Tojhuset they have a machine to make red hot shot. It has a couple of rails in spiral around an oven.
I think this was for a fort, not to use on board, but they existed too...

Maybe not the one you saw, but we may see a mobile one operated by the same Royal Norwegian Navy (circa 1860).
The ones for fortification facilities are pretty massive, like this French one at Fort-la-Latte and the other at Fort Mc Allister US.


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[Jim McDougall]

It seems an 'angel shot' is the bar shot with two half spheres connected by a bar.
Spider shot is chain shot but with a number of chains.

The destructive force of any sort of cannon shot was unimaginable and horrifying even though low velocity, some moving seemingly slow through the air could have gruesome effect. With that capacity with a simple round shot ball, one can only imagine what these more elaborate devices could do.

Obviously, with chain shot, the bolo effect against a mast or rigging would seem more effective than with a ball with more localized damage on strike. As noted, these were not especially accurate with their erratic aerodynamics, so would only be close range use. The idea was to immobilize the opponent vessel to prevent escape.

In the superb book on piracy by Benerson Little, "The Golden Age of Piracy: The Truth Behind Pirate Myths" (2016), p.101, he cites a reference from "A Relation of Three Years Suffering" (Robert Evard, 1746). In this the authors narrative describes being aboard the English ship Bauden out of London attacked by pirates off the coast of Madagascar in 1686. Apparently the pirates had made several contacts with the ship, but finally in the process of boarding, the author says, "....his SHOT cut many of our shrouds".

While as often the case in recorded accounts, the 'type' of shot used is not specified, however as per our discussions, it would suggest that the type would have been chain shot.

It would seem that pirate vessels would have favored this type of weapon to immobilize the targeted ship to prevent it from escape...without damage that might sink the vessel before thorough plundering.

While not specified in actual accounts, this lack of mention is contrarily well portrayed in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" fiction with Jack Sparrow shouting, "...load your guns with chain shot! Aim for their rigging! We must slow them down". Hooray for Hollywood!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... I hope to obtain an 'angel' (a bar shot with square bar and two half balls) one of these days as well ...

From Revolutionary War Journal ...
Bar shot was similar to chain shot except a metal bar attached the shot at each end. The bar was one to two feet long. A type of this was referred to as a sliding shot. The connecting bar was actually two bars which, upon firing, would slide over each other by connecting grommets that expanded the distance between shot as well as its destructive force. All forms of bar shot were called angel shot for its appearance in flight to deliver a not so angelic impact.