A cannon chainshot

[adrian]

The piece measures approximately 12" long with each ball approx 8" in diameter.

8" diameter equates to a 68pr which were larger than guns carried by the English for example (except for the odd Carronade or two) so I assume that you mean some other measurement, 8cm dia or 8" circumference?

Would it be possible to see close up photos of the welds of several of the chain links please? They almost seem to be proud of the surface in the main photo, as one finds with modern factory welded links; is that build up corrosion or metal?
Also photos of the attachment of the links to the balls please - cast integrally or welded to the surface?

[adrian]

Here is a 24 lb solid ball and marked so you know who sent it to you.

That is a super example - the broad arrow only seems to appear on very early shot, quite why they went to the trouble is a mystery to me - why do so few have this? I have collected British muzzle loading projectiles, fuzes etc for nearly two decades and while old British cannon balls with provenance are not too difficult to find - museums, private collections, etc - any marked examples are rare.

[M ELEY]

Oops!!! Adrian, you are absolutely correct! Sorry, no math major! I meant 8 inches in total circumference (meaning literally wrapping my measuring ruler around it). It is only 2.5" tall, if you know what I mean. It's nearly exactly as big as my 2 lb cannonball (a common size for the American 'grasshopper' cannons from the Revolution. Likewise, the 2 pounder balls were used in some swivels). in simpler terms, the size of a small orange or tangerine. Thanks for that correction and I need to go back to shool!

The 12" length is correct, though-

[Jim McDougall]

Capn, thank you so much for posting this amazing example of an unusual aspect of maritime ordnance! While obviously, as your research has shown, these rather devastating things had terrible effect on personnel also so found use ashore as well, and the results must have been horrifying.

Its great to have the addendums and thorough details you have placed here also, and I hope others can add some other insights and examples. I know of an example from Dutch resources and will try to locate the pics. I had no idea that these were in scenes from one or two of the "Pirates of the Caribbean" films, and that the Disney studios went to great lengths to use as much accuracy as possible in weaponry, a growing trend for many Hollywood films over the years (despite occasional missteps).

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by adrian

Here is a 24 lb solid ball and marked so you know who sent it to you.

That is a super example - the broad arrow only seems to appear on very early shot, quite why they went to the trouble is a mystery to me - why do so few have this? I have collected British muzzle loading projectiles, fuzes etc for nearly two decades and while old British cannon balls with provenance are not too difficult to find - museums, private collections, etc - any marked examples are rare.

It does seen unusual as the shot was obviously an expendable item, so why add markings? I think it was more a matter of an attempt at marking anything considered Royal property and if not mistaken was in the reign of Henry VIII in his concerns over military weapons and supply. It does seem the 'broad arrow' was around considerable years before.
This was in fact marking of ordnance items in storage, rather than an 'in your eye' note. As you say, typically the projectiles are not marked, and the markings on cannon have key meanings aside from what is often perceived.

[Jim McDougall]

well, this topic has sent me on a quest to learn more, and Capn thank you for the link to that 2009 discussion, indeed poignant seeing the words and wonderful posts of our departed friend Michael.

In "The Archaeology of Ships of War" (Menson Bound, 1995. p.34), there was an Elizabethan shipwreck found off the French coast near island of Alderney, whose nationality is uncertain but quite likely Spanish, as numbers of 'Spanish spike shot' were found. It is said that Drake invented this ordnance to use against Spaniards, but the design of course was adopted by them and others.
What is interesting though in this c. 1590s wreck were about 6 concreted 'BAR SHOT' with 3" diameter 'half ball shot" connected by 12" wrought iron bar.

In the same book (p.118) an English East Indiaman named the "Hindostan' built 1789, has listed in armament 24 twelve pounders with 352 rounds shot and 37 DOUBLE HEADED SHOT. Also there were 37 six pounders with 112 round shot and 23 DOUBLE HEAD SHOT.

These East Indiamen were prepared to defend against French vessels (during war with France) as well as ever lurking pirate vessels.

That pirate vessels were also long familiar with these kinds of shot is told by Angus Konstam ("Blackbeard", 2006, p.179)..."one final ammunition type that was relatively WIDELY used was CHAINSHOT....roundshot linked together by a rod. This spun through the air and was designed to bring down masts".

Apparently this term was used broadly for both types, connected by chain, as well as by bar. It was necessary to be at close range firing this as a normal charge might explode the gun barrel. These were apparently well wrapped in rags or wadding to maintain mass going through barrel which of course fell away at exit.
The main idea was of course to destroy the masts to prevent the vessel from escaping, but the destruction of the ship structure was also a factor. With any type shot, the key factor was to cause casualties, with deadly splintering the result, not to sink the valuable ship itself.

While teak was always a great seaworthy wood, its drawback was that its splintered shrapnel was deadly causing gangrene and death, while oak was essentially 'clean' in its wounding. Thus oak became the structural choice due to this factor ("The Gun Deck" , in 'Campaigns' magazine editorial , Sept Oct 1977).

These deadly projectiles, even if not hitting a victim directly, would launch the dreaded splinters, (some pieces even feet long) to horrible effect against the men on the vessel.

[Jim McDougall]

Curious about where these kinds of ordnance might have come from,

From ; "The Arsenal of the World: Dutch Arms Trade in the Seventeenth Century", Jan Piet Puype and Marco van der Hoeven,1996 p.69
glossary of some terms pertaining to cannon shot:

los schwerp: chain shot, two cannon balls linked with a chain
schuiftang: expanding bar shot, 'boutkagel' with expanding bar

bout, boutkagel,schietbout: bar shot; bar shaped cannon ball or two cannon balls connected with bar.

kneppel: two cannon balls linked by an iron bar

kruisscherp, kruisbal: cannon ball with transverse bar

lang scherpp: rectangular cannon projectiles

Arms merchants in Dordrecht and Liege sold these products, many of which were made in Germany, Poland or Sweden.

[M ELEY]

Jim, you snuck up on me with your awesome replies! A fellow pirate, indeed!

Thank you for coming in on this conversation, as always! I appreciate that info on the Spanish shipwreck off the isle of Alderney (I'll have to research it. I'm learning a lot from the study of certain wrecks). Confirmation of my research showing that spike shot was the earliest and used by the Elizabethan sea dogs. I must say I was surprised that bar shot was also found on this wreck from such an early period. Here's another-

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3497&lot=1371

The 'teak vs oak' explanation is also a fascinating take from your comments. The 'shivered timbers' so deadly from the impact of standard cannon balls and specialty shot such as these. A 'cleaner' wound from oak is fascinating. Speaking of shivers, anyone interested in naval battles should check out the 2017 Dutch film 'Admiral', with some heinous scenes of just how deadly these wood projectiles could be.

Thank you also for the breakdown of what other nations called these items. Much like the various names for boarding pikes, axes, cutlass in other countries, it is always interesting to see the similarities in these items (hache de bord, marine sabal, etc). The one on this list that still intrigues me just for its odd shape and how someone came up with it is the 'lang scherpp' or rectangular cannon projectile, sort of dumbell-shaped, but with widened/squared ends. I'll also have to check out that reference you mentioned by Bound, Jim. As I said, shipwreck sites and books have really helped me build m knowledge on these things.

[M ELEY]

Speaking of shipwrecks and recovered artifacts, here's one of my favorite sites featuring the wreck of the privateer French vessel Machault. Check out page 38 for some interesting folding bar shot-

https://sha.org/assets/documents/Leg...lt_English.pdf

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... Much like the various names for boarding pikes, axes, cutlass in other countries, it is always interesting to see the similarities in these items (hache de bord, marine sabal, etc)...

In the Oporto Military Museum, we see chain shot tagged with the generic name "Balas encadeadas" (chained bullets). Note one example has piramid coupling indentations, and the other, round ones.
The bar shot, we call it here "Palanqueta", diminutive for palanca (pole).
The last image is a French example where the half balls are hollow. They call these Boulet ramé (ramé like (tree) branch ?). Not particulary this 'atypical' pattern but again the French generic term for chain shot.


.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Jim, you snuck up on me with your awesome replies! A fellow pirate, indeed!

Thank you for coming in on this conversation, as always! I appreciate that info on the Spanish shipwreck off the isle of Alderney (I'll have to research it. I'm learning a lot from the study of certain wrecks). Confirmation of my research showing that spike shot was the earliest and used by the Elizabethan sea dogs. I must say I was surprised that bar shot was also found on this wreck from such an early period. Here's another-

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3497&lot=1371

The 'teak vs oak' explanation is also a fascinating take from your comments. The 'shivered timbers' so deadly from the impact of standard cannon balls and specialty shot such as these. A 'cleaner' wound from oak is fascinating. Speaking of shivers, anyone interested in naval battles should check out the 2017 Dutch film 'Admiral', with some heinous scenes of just how deadly these wood projectiles could be.

Thank you also for the breakdown of what other nations called these items. Much like the various names for boarding pikes, axes, cutlass in other countries, it is always interesting to see the similarities in these items (hache de bord, marine sabal, etc). The one on this list that still intrigues me just for its odd shape and how someone came up with it is the 'lang scherpp' or rectangular cannon projectile, sort of dumbell-shaped, but with widened/squared ends. I'll also have to check out that reference you mentioned by Bound, Jim. As I said, shipwreck sites and books have really helped me build m knowledge on these things.

Its an exciting topic, and outstanding example you posted Capn, how could I resist!!