Kazakhcha Style Pchak?

ariel · 5th May 2022, 05:21 AM

This one :
_-Is not a Kazakhcha. Those are fishermen knives for people living next to the Aral Sea. The back goes down at ~ a quarter distance from the tip ( point, and then goes up to the axis of the blade or forms a long gradual downward line to the point. In both cases, this forms something like a wide indentation or thinning with ( very often) false edge , allegedly to remove scales.
In both cases the distal part of the blade is quite narrow.

- Your blade is either the so-called Tolbargi ( ivy leaf) : spine goes down abruptly to the point situated at or below the axis of the blade. Used mainly for butcher works, ie meat cutting.
Alternatively, it may be, as you suggested, just a Kaike or Tugri: straight spine with one or two narrow fullers, used mainly for slaughtering animals. Both might have had broken off point and re-formed.
I tend to believe it reminds more of Tolbargi: the upper surface of the tang has multiple indentations ( hammering to ease the butcher's job).

- I also think it is not Uzbeki at all: the handle is very different and made ( likely) of elephant ivory, which is greatly atypical for the purely utilitarian Uzbeki knives. My guess it is either Indian or Afghani.

Also, traditional and old Uzbeki P'chak ( or Pichak) blades were not made of damascus or any hard steel. The steel was, in fact, very soft: much cheaper to produce and able to be sharpened by any rock found on the ground or just by the bottom of ceramic " piala", a tea cup. These knives were strictly utilitarian and the effort of maintaining them in a workable condition was brought down to the minimum. They whittled down easily and just replaced. Cheap mass production, very different from what they are sold for today as souvenirs.

ariel · 5th May 2022, 11:05 PM

If my description of Kazakhcha variant of P'chak was confusing, here is a picture of actual Kazakhcha,

RobT · 5th May 2022, 11:17 PM

Ariel,

Thanks for the response. Now that you pointed it out, a tolbargi with a broken tip seems very plausible and would match the shape of the sheath at the tip. Since the blade has no fullers, I think either a kayke or tugri is unlikely. The hilt could very well be ivory. Given its condition, I really can't be sure but one would think that the owner of an ivory hilted knife would have taken better care of it. The blade steel is probably pretty good because the knife seems to have age to it and the edge appears to be close to its original profile. As you pointed out, mild steel would have been sharpened away. By the way, the site I found translated tolbargi as willow leaf.

Sincerely,
RobT

5th May 2022, 05:21 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This one : _-Is not a Kazakhcha. Those are fishermen knives for people living next to the Aral Sea. The back goes down at ~ a quarter distance from the tip ( point, and then goes up to the axis of the blade or forms a long gradual downward line to the point. In both cases, this forms something like a wide indentation or thinning with ( very often) false edge , allegedly to remove scales. In both cases the distal part of the blade is quite narrow. - Your blade is either the so-called Tolbargi ( ivy leaf) : spine goes down abruptly to the point situated at or below the axis of the blade. Used mainly for butcher works, ie meat cutting. Alternatively, it may be, as you suggested, just a Kaike or Tugri: straight spine with one or two narrow fullers, used mainly for slaughtering animals. Both might have had broken off point and re-formed. I tend to believe it reminds more of Tolbargi: the upper surface of the tang has multiple indentations ( hammering to ease the butcher's job). - I also think it is not Uzbeki at all: the handle is very different and made ( likely) of elephant ivory, which is greatly atypical for the purely utilitarian Uzbeki knives. My guess it is either Indian or Afghani. Also, traditional and old Uzbeki P'chak ( or Pichak) blades were not made of damascus or any hard steel. The steel was, in fact, very soft: much cheaper to produce and able to be sharpened by any rock found on the ground or just by the bottom of ceramic " piala", a tea cup. These knives were strictly utilitarian and the effort of maintaining them in a workable condition was brought down to the minimum. They whittled down easily and just replaced. Cheap mass production, very different from what they are sold for today as souvenirs. Last edited by ariel; 5th May 2022 at 05:36 AM.

5th May 2022, 11:05 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	If my description of Kazakhcha variant of P'chak was confusing, here is a picture of actual Kazakhcha, Attached Images

5th May 2022, 11:17 PM	#3
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 566	Your Arguments are Convincing Ariel, Thanks for the response. Now that you pointed it out, a tolbargi with a broken tip seems very plausible and would match the shape of the sheath at the tip. Since the blade has no fullers, I think either a kayke or tugri is unlikely. The hilt could very well be ivory. Given its condition, I really can't be sure but one would think that the owner of an ivory hilted knife would have taken better care of it. The blade steel is probably pretty good because the knife seems to have age to it and the edge appears to be close to its original profile. As you pointed out, mild steel would have been sharpened away. By the way, the site I found translated tolbargi as willow leaf. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 5th May 2022 at 11:18 PM. Reason: grammar